What am I doing wrong? :(

[alyssak665]

So I bought my very first male veiled a while back and was so excited. I have always wanted a chameleon and I researched EVERYTHING! I found a nice local breeder who had been at the reptile show that I went to and he hooked me up with everything I need. All his chams in his "chameleon garage" seemed to be doing fine. A lot of them old and very healthy! The only thing is that he didnt have any adult male veileds I could marvel at. Anyway, I had the screen cage, uvb lighting brand new, mister, heat lamp (he gave me a 25 watt bulb) he gave me the dusting powder so sadly I don't know what exactly is in it but I do know it was a calcium/D3 mix. I gut loaded my crickets with cricket food and greens. I had my new cham a whopping 2 months and then I noticed him looking sickly and he was dehydrated and had in-turned arms (start of MBD). I told the breeder and he said he would try and give him liquid calcium but sadly he held on for 2 weeks then passed. I was doing everything like I was told and researched. So fast forward to today. I waited a while before getting another cham and swore I would not let anything happen to this one. He seemed happy and healthy and was eating and drinking regularly and nice and active. I noticed the night before last that he was opening and closing his mouth while sleeping but the next day seemed ok. I wake up this morning and he is dead at the bottom of his cage. I had the new one a whole month and a half. I am starting to think I am not cut out for chameleons and don't want to keep getting them just to have them die on me, that is cruel! But I dream of raising a nice veiled with brilliant colors that I can proudly say is a few years old! I read all these stories of first timers that didnt know better and didnt use a UVB light, or kept them in a glass enclosure with no heat and they still live for 6 months or longer, why is it that mine wont even hold on 2 months?! Anyway, I guess I am looking for answers or similar stories that ended up better? I feel like poop!

 

[Sinfulintent]

Sorry for both your losses,

could you fill this out for us https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

In the format it's in it is easier for us to understand what set up you had exactly, and maybe check something that you may have missed or that the breeder forgot to mention to you.

Also I see you in Sac, welcome to the forums from someone in Tracy.

 

[Lathelia]

I'm really sorry for your loss. The only way to know for sure what caused it, is a necropsy. We can check your husbandry to find if there were any errors if you fill out this form:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

 

[alyssak665]

Oh and because i know someone will ask haha...

Your Chameleon - male veiled chameleon about 4 months old
Handling - on average once ever couple days but for no longer than 10 minutes
Feeding -crickets gutloaded with collard greens
Supplements - unsure, given by breeder
Watering - mist and filled my dripper home-made water bottle thing once in the morning 7am-ish, after work 12:30ish, around 2, and around 5
Fecal Description - lots of poo! Some with yellow urate, some with white
History - Seemed healthy until started opening mouth one night, died the next night
Cage Info: lots of foliage
Cage Type -l screen enclosure which is 18x18x36in
Lighting- UVB zoomed I believe, on from 7am till 7pm heat light 25 watt when it was warmer inside and red 60 watt when it was really cold at night (only a couple times)
Temperature - 70's around cage, low 80's under heat lamp
Humidity - used a hygrometer and kept the humidity between 50-70
Plants - umbrella plant, mostly dead ficus (just started blooming again, and small pothos plant at the bottom that was Darwins favorite pooping spot haha
Placement - The cage is on top of a stand next to a window that had bushes on the other side
Location - sacramento, ca

 

[Kaianuanu]

It's very possible you had a D3 overdose if you were using that powder daily. I killed my first panther in this way, also following the "reputable" breeder's recommendation. Similar time frame too, but I didn't notice him gaping. I strongly suggest you sanitize all of your equipment and decor, do some more research on everything, especially supplementation as it is a tricky topic, and get another Cham as you will regret it. I waited 3 years after my first panther died and I sure am kicking myself now. If it was your fault, you probably just needed to do a bit more research, not because you were an incompetent keeper. And above all, trust the pros and senior members on here above any care sheet or breeder recommendation.

 

[Kaianuanu]

Oh and because i know someone will ask haha...

Your Chameleon - male veiled chameleon about 4 months old
Handling - on average once ever couple days but for no longer than 10 minutes
Feeding -crickets gutloaded with collard greens
Supplements - unsure, given by breeder
Watering - mist and filled my dripper home-made water bottle thing once in the morning 7am-ish, after work 12:30ish, around 2, and around 5
Fecal Description - lots of poo! Some with yellow urate, some with white
History - Seemed healthy until started opening mouth one night, died the next night
Cage Info: lots of foliage
Cage Type -l screen enclosure which is 18x18x36in
Lighting- UVB zoomed I believe, on from 7am till 7pm heat light 25 watt when it was warmer inside and red 60 watt when it was really cold at night (only a couple times)
Temperature - 70's around cage, low 80's under heat lamp
Humidity - used a hygrometer and kept the humidity between 50-70
Plants - umbrella plant, mostly dead ficus (just started blooming again, and small pothos plant at the bottom that was Darwins favorite pooping spot haha
Placement - The cage is on top of a stand next to a window that had bushes on the other side
Location - sacramento, ca

Btw, this looks really good except the supplementation, and the red light at night, if you need heat at night, you should use a ceramic heat emitter.

 

[alyssak665]

I only used the supplement about 3 times a week. The breeder said every feeding and I did that with the first but then the more I researched the more I saw everyone saying dont dust every feeding so I didnt with the second one. I sanitized the cage after the first one too but I almost just want to start over with everything new to make sure its not the stuff I'm using.

 

[Kaianuanu]

I only used the supplement about 3 times a week. The breeder said every feeding and I did that with the first but then the more I researched the more I saw everyone saying dont dust every feeding so I didnt with the second one. I sanitized the cage after the first one too but I almost just want to start over with everything new to make sure its not the stuff I'm using.

We need to find out what dust it was, do you know the name and can you produce a picture of the label.

 

[alyssak665]

unfortunately no, the breeder made things easy for me and gave me little cups labeled 1,2, and 3. Supplement, cricket food, and these water bead things to give the crickets water.

 

[alyssak665]

would they both die like that in less than 2 months with 3 times a week dusting? I know I don't know what it is but I'm positive it wasn't poison lol

 

[Kaianuanu]

Well rep cal with D3, a commonly used supplement, used daily, causes hypervitaminosis D, AKA D3 POISONing

 

[alyssak665]

I texted the breeder, it was repashy calcium plus vitamin and calcium supplement.

 

[ReptileLove18]

the repashy has d3 in it, did the breeder say if the other calcium supplement has d3 in it as well?

 

[Kaianuanu]

Every other day is a bit much for calcium plus, I'd say regular calcium 4 days a week and then the cal+ twice a week

 

[alyssak665]

that was the only supplement. That could definitely be a contributing factor but I feel like both shouldn't have died so soon. We had a good schedule going and he seemed active and then boom, he's dead. I really want to raise a veiled but now I'm scared to try because I feel like I keep killing them. At least I start vet tech school in 2 weeks and will learn a thing or two. I'm waiting a while before my next though.

 

[ReptileLove18]

Every other day is a bit much for calcium plus, I'd say regular calcium 4 days a week and then the cal+ twice a week

the recommended supplement schedule for veileds is plain calcium supplement with nearly every feeding, calcium with d3 twice a month, and a multivitamin twice a month.

that was the only supplement. That could definitely be a contributing factor but I feel like both shouldn't have died so soon. We had a good schedule going and he seemed active and then boom, he's dead. I really want to raise a veiled but now I'm scared to try because I feel like I keep killing them. At least I start vet tech school in 2 weeks and will learn a thing or two. I'm waiting a while before my next though.

it happens more often then we realize that breeders and sellers arent as knowledgeable as they appear to be and this can lead to issues with what they sell they may have been ill from the start, you said he didnt look well when you brought him home so he may have had health problems that were not going to get better..

with good research done and the proper set up, care, and a healthy cham you can most definitely raise a healthy chameleon we are here to help you all we can, there are tons of very knowledgeable people here who have a lot of experience with chameleons and have complied accurate information on their care. we can help you get prepared so that when you are ready you will have many successful years with your next chameleon.

the first step is getting accurate info on the species you are interested in, so here is the best caresheet out there on veiled chameleons. check it out and if you have any questions at all we are here for you!! https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

when you are ready there are lots of very reputable breeders we can connect you with to get you a healthy cham as well

 

[alyssak665]

Thank you so much! I will definitely be living on this site before my next one! I know the breeder is reputable with panthers, I have read some reviews but nothing on veileds. Super nice guy but I will be buying from somewhere else next time.

 

[TiffanyMariexo]

Chameleons are not an easy reptile ! Lots of care and lots of things to learn. I learn new things everyday and spend so much of my time on here talking to people and reading other threads. Sorry for your loss the people on here are fanominal so anything questions will be answered !!!

 

[ReptileLove18]

this site is great, will provide all the info you need before you bring your next friend home just ask any questions you have!
i have learned so much from this forum and been helped by lots of very experienced members when i first got on here and i had an experience similar to yours so i can understand what your dealing with! but this next time will be better for you

i would try somewhere else as well, unfortunately i think your little one may have passed from d3 oversupplementation and there really isnt much you could have done about that since he gave you premixed supplements.