What chameleons in Madagascar eat....
- Thread starter kinyonga
- Start date
jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
That's the thing if wild and often dehydrated/parasite infected chameleons can eat soooo many beetles. Do we really think mealworms or substrate are likely to cause impaction?
On another note, it'd be cool if we could see a nutrient profile(macro and micro) of those groups of invertebrates. It would probably give a decent idea of which vitamins and minerals they're consuming most/least. Along with percentage of proteins/fats/etc. Doubtful we could get this info on all these random insects, but interesting to think about.
On another note, it'd be cool if we could see a nutrient profile(macro and micro) of those groups of invertebrates. It would probably give a decent idea of which vitamins and minerals they're consuming most/least. Along with percentage of proteins/fats/etc. Doubtful we could get this info on all these random insects, but interesting to think about.
jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
I do think petr necas has a point with us overfeeding adult chameleons. A cockroach or even gutloaded crickets, silkworms, etc are much richer meals than what they probably see in the wild. I think that is good, but the amount that they should have is probably far less than what most of us have been feeding.
CasqueAbove
Chameleon Enthusiast
I agree with this. I think it is like eating a porterhouse every night vs fish. Bothe are good for you, but too much red meat is bad. Roaches are like triple the proteins and fat of bees flies and the like. Crickets and locust are in between. It is the over feeding that is the problem. Mine as special needs but still he shows how little an adult male needs to stay at a healthy weight.
jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
Yeah I'd have to agree. I think the 'too much' is the problem. I'm also not sold on red meat in itself being bad, as most people that consume red meat regularly are eating unhealthy in general. But that's a discussion for somewhere else lol.
Reptiles seem to hold water and fat better. It throws us off not feeding often because we'd be starving. Like even the water, my guy gets fog 4 nights a week and he refuses to sit in it, just kind of near it, then he gets a shower a week. Yet his urates are white and moist, fecals look perfect. All summer he eats wild insects too and never had parasites
Pickle-cham
Chameleon Enthusiast
The interesting foods for me are the damsel & dragonflies since they spend a majority of their life cycle feeding on small fish and aquatic insects. A potential real vitamin A source, and its my own theory that since man increasingly agriculturally alters Madagascar that these particular flies are becoming more scarce as swamped land is cleared.
jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
If I remember right they do eat roaches in the wild, some are diurnal and/or hang out in trees. Either way, nutrition is nutrition, probably just good to be careful not to overfeed.
Chase
Chameleon Enthusiast
this is where the 6 month expert and parrots of the hobby get things wrong. They see information and just word vomit every chance they can.
As addressed already in this thread (without actually saying it), the importance is giving a varied diet. Chameleons are not going to necessarily see the same type of insect every day, so to argue that they should be fed the same thing every day in captivity is illogical.
jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
Absolutely agree. I even think variety is more important than gutload. Unfortunately a lot of us are limited in variety options, so we hope gutload helps make up for it a bit.
Chase
Chameleon Enthusiast
Yes I’d have to agree. In reality if you have one chameleon- are you going to have a roach colony, hundreds of super worms, etc.? You’re most likely going to the pet store to pick up what you need to make it through the week for feedings and that’s it.
Growing up I had 10+ reptiles at a time, I had 1000 crickets and 1000 super worms ordered at a time to make it cheaper since the local store was quite a haul for me, and it didn’t make sense to drive 30+ minutes round trip for 100 crickets at a time. This was a bulk of their diet but I supplemented when I could.
Flick boy
Chameleon Enthusiast
This also begs the question. I usually buy enough feeders to last around a month. Which I continually feed the gutload ( which is good for the cham but not necessarily the feeders. Would it be safe to say after reading some stuff on the Internet can't remember where. That my feeders ( our feeders ) would be better fed a proper maintenance diet then gut loaded ?
CasqueAbove
Chameleon Enthusiast
I don't gut load. I feed my feeders primarily fresh vegies and occasionally one a month a little extra protean in some form. I also feed my feeders bee pollen as a supplement. being they are always feed this there is no need to gut load. For most they do not know what or even when the last time feeders ate. They compensate by "Gut Loading" which is less effective but if there are no other options. I think it is best to raise healthy insects. even for a single cham crickets can be bought small and raised up. Simply having two bins 3 to 4 weeks apart and rotate as you run out.
Here is the hard part. You have to care about the crickets lol. If kept clean and se up right they won't smell. If you do this you will find that 1/2 inch crickets can live about 12 weeks yes 12. So you can buy 1/2 inch keep them 4 weeks and feed them off. With two smaller bins you would only order every 4 to 6 weeks,
jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
Bee pollen is good and I use it, but I think it is important not to overdo it. The amount they'd get in the wild would be very small particles, not insects covered in it. I have read that it's suspected to be linked to kidney problems in people in excessive amounts too. With chameleons having very sensitive kidneys, my guess is a little goes a long way.
Flick boy
Chameleon Enthusiast
It would seem unnatural and improbable irregardless of which feeders that their gut would be full of the ingredients that the gutload list includes. So there for buying more feeders which will be intended to be kept for a longer period could in theory be better nourished than straight off the self gut-loaded . But yes when I red petr files it made a lot of sense but obviously not totally achevieabl in captivity
