What do you know about these chameleons?

[Reptilelover47]

Hey guys, I'm new to this site and I'm planning on getting a chameleon in the near future and am unsure of which one to start with. I have a 50 gallon screen terrarium with a complete proper set up, including a repti fogger and hygrotherm. I have had reptiles in the past and really do enjoy them and I'm always up for a challenge.

To sum up what I'm looking for, I'd like a female beginner chameleon of moderate to small size, that isn't known for being overly unfriendly (I know all chameleons tend to be grumpy) and isn't overly expensive itself. I have a few that I'm looking at, that I believe fit my criteria.

My top choice so far is a flap neck chameleon. It sounds like a good beginner chameleon of moderate size and I hear that they tend to be very calm and less intimidated/scared by humans, although I do understand that each chameleon is different in personality and species doesn't matter, that it's always a gamble.

I have also heard that the ruwenzori side striped or rudis chameleon can be a great beginner species. I like the fact that they are small too. Their care sounds like it's very similar to that of the flap neck.

The last one I've considered recently is the green pygmy chameleon, but I have been told that they might not be a good beginner choice. Is this true? Obviously the set up I have is much too large for them, but would that mean that the space would be large enough to have multiple as long as there's no more than one male? My little brother is excited and asks if I could get multiple chameleons. I'm pretty sure the answer to this question is no, but... askin' anyway. lol

If anyone knows of anywhere that I can purchase a captive bred baby of any of those please let me know.

Please let me know anything you know about any of these, even share experiences if you'd like, and correct me if I'm wrong about anything I've said. I'd love to know about your specific chameleon's temperament if you've had one of these.


Feel free to recommend another good beginner choice (with reasoning please). I know that many of you will recommend the veiled chameleon as a good beginner choice, but, to be honest, their look and size just doesn't appeal to me much.
I would love a panther chameleon, but can't afford to be spending more than $110 on the chameleon itself (including shipping) right now.

Thank you very much for any help. It's truly appreciated.

-Serena

 

[Kaianuanu]

Why do you want a female? They are usually not recommended for beginners and they are usually a lot less atractive. Honestly, I think you'd be best off saving up for a male panther, they have a lot more to offer than veileds IMO, they are one of the Best looking, friendliest, and easy to care for species. They are the ideal beginner species in all aspects except for price. And you can find deals on them if youre not looking for any spectacular bloodlines, the chameleon company sells most locales for around $150. I would recommend you steer clear of the less common species since there is such little available info and there aren't many members on here who can give you species specific advice on them.

 

[Kaianuanu]

Also, if you fill out the form in the link below and post some pics with it, it will help us, help you get you setup squared away before you get your Cham.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

 

[shaunaroxanne]

First, look for a captured bred above all else. If they are wild caught, they could have all kinds of problems that you are not prepared to deal with. Second, a female is much more difficult than a male, because they will lay eggs whether or not you breed them. There are things that can be done to reduce egg production, but you said you wanted easy.......If you don't have the proper conditions for her, she can become egg-bound and die. It's a good thing that you are doing your research. Welcome to the forums

 

[Reptilelover47]

Thanks for the info.
I just figured that a female would be more modest looking, which isn't something I don't like, and I thought that maybe they'd be more likely to be less aggressive, plus they're smaller than males.
The panther chameleon idea definitely something I'll keep in mind and consider. But, aren't panther usually very large, or does it depend on the type? Would my enclosure be a suitable size?
I understand what your saying with your last statement.
Thank you!

 

[Reptilelover47]

Shaunaroxanne thanks for the welcome!
I'm definitely looking for captive bred and that's a very good point. Guess I want a boy now after what everyone's saying.
Yes, I definitely want to do my research. I like to learn about reptiles anyway!

 

[ReptileLove18]

Welcome to the forum!
check out the chameleon care resources, they are packed with great info on general chameleon care and specified care and needs on different chameleon species! https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/chameleons/
its great to do your research before you bring them home. that way you know what species and sex you will be able to care for best and have your set up all ready and proper when they get there

 

[Reptilelover47]

Thanks!!!

 

[ReptileLove18]

very welcome any questions you think of please ask, we are all here to help!

 

[Kaianuanu]

Most panthers usually don't have attitude problems anyway. Males do get relatively large, but nothing ridiculous, your cage would be too small several months down the road, but it is recommended that you starts young chams off in smaller cages anyway. An adult male would be happy in a 24x24x48, which you can get for under $100, when you need it. You can get an appropriate sized reptarium for less, and you can build a DIY cage for much less also.

 

[Carlton]

To sum up what I'm looking for, I'd like a female beginner chameleon of moderate to small size, that isn't known for being overly unfriendly (I know all chameleons tend to be grumpy) and isn't overly expensive itself. I have a few that I'm looking at, that I believe fit my criteria.

My top choice so far is a flap neck chameleon.

-Serena

You'll have a pretty hard time finding a cbb flap neck. What about a female jacksons? Moderate size, tend to be shy and gentle rather than "grumpy", don't have as much trouble with infertile egglaying issues (they give live birth but I don't think they always start to produce infertile ova if not bred), and they are not very expensive. But, you may need to invest more into proper humidity depending on your local climate.

 

[NavyCham]

if u are open to other options, id recommend looking up Senegal chameleons. they are about as friendly as chameleons get. they are small and look very similar to a flap necked. also they are inexpensive ($40ish) extreamly hardy which makes them excellent for beginners. the only thing is u should find one thats captive bred which can be a bit tricky. wild caughts are very easy to come by but come with the risk of parasites

 

[Reptilelover47]

NavyCham I'll look into the senegal idea too. Thanks.

Carlton, thanks for the idea. I've got a lot to consider at this point. I actually have found cbb flap necks for sale on bigappleherp.com, but they're out of stock for the next few weeks.




To fill out the "How to ask for help" thing like Kaianuanu said:

Chameleon info-
-no chameleon yet


Cage info- Testing set up use before purchasing chameleon, everything that says "not set up yet" is still in the mail.

-Cage type
Repti breeze screen terrarium 18*18*36"

-Lighting
5.0 UVB reptisun (daytime)
150w ExoTerra daytime heat lamp (daytime)
100w Zoo Med moonlite reptile bulb (nighttime)
everything is on a timer (13 hours for daytime)

-Temperature
lowest temps at floor, highest at basking spot near top
60-70F night time
65-75F day time (this is why I'm getting the heat rope, I'm planning to reach a temp of 75-90F during the day and getting night temp up about 5 degrees)
big apple herp heat rope - not yet set up
hygrotherm - not yet set up
I can alter temps depending on chameleon's needs
Temps measured using a digital thermometer

-Humidity
30-75% daytime
50-80% nighttime
Using a repti fogger on a timer
turns on for 30min every 3 hours during the day and every 2 hours at night
Humidity measured using a digital hygrometer
I have a mister to use a few times daily
have a dripper - not set up yet

-Plants
All fake, many vines and leaves

-Placement
My basement behind my desk.
It's a very quiet, secluded area.
There are two ceiling fans. They are typically off.
The terrarium is 25 inches off the ground.

-Location
South Jersey Shore


Current Problem-
-Unsure of what chameleon species to start with
-Any ideas to help with the heating issue in the terrarium? My basement is cold (60F) and I'm not supposed to turn on the basement heat.

 

[Kaianuanu]

In-cage heating methods are not recommended, I suggest you up you basking bulb wattage, and raise it up a little if the basking spot gets too hot with it. Those bulb wattages already seem high however, just watch your basking spot temp to make sure it isnt too hot. Oh, now I notice your lights already are suspended, good job, I think it's something more keepers could benefit from. Your decor looks pretty good, except you need to ditch the substrate, rocks, and moss on the floor. A loose substrate can be very dangerous to chams for multiple reasons. If you want something there, use paper towels. I personally would also ditch the lizard hammock, and put a live potted plant in there like a Ficus benjamina or a Schefflera arboricola. I personally have only live plants and real vines from outside. You have a really good start though, most new guys have their enclosures way to barren.

Your UVB looks good but I think you should ditch the moonlight, having any lights on can stress chameleons out, if you need heat at night, use a ceramic heat emitter, as they do not give off any light, since your house seems to be pretty cold, you might even keep it on
24/7.

As for the species debate, the only one mentioned that I would personally suggest for you other than the panther would be the Senegal, but I still think a panther would be a better fit.

 

[Reptilelover47]

the ceramic heat emitter sounds like something I'll have to do rather than the moonlight bulb then.

For the bottom I'm thinking a repti carpet instead? they're easy to clean.

I am highly considering what everyone's said, but can I ask why no one seems to like the flap neck idea? Their care is supposed to be very similar to that of the veiled or senegal and they're supposed to be a nicer species. I also did find captive bred babies on one site.

 

[NavyCham]

I don't thing anyone has a problem with flap necked. I just think Senegals and vieleds are hardier species so they are more recommended as a first chameleon. Personally I think any of the chameleo species (graceful, flap necked, and Senegals) are great starters cause they are easy to care for and very social. I was originally going to get a flap necked but Senegals where available at the time

 

[Kaianuanu]

I wouldn't use a repti carpet unless you are washing and putting in a dry one daily, they just won't dry fast enough inside a cage and will harbor bacteria. If you don't like the white PVC floor, you could possibly look for some black plastic sheeting to make a new floor out of.

 

[laurie]

Hello and welcome, it is always great to see someone research before they buy. We are all here to help you. But these are just our opinions, Buy what will make you happy, I am sure with what you have you can make it work.

NavyCham I'll look into the senegal idea too. Thanks.

Carlton, thanks for the idea. I've got a lot to consider at this point. I actually have found cbb flap necks for sale on bigappleherp.com, but they're out of stock for the next few weeks.




To fill out the "How to ask for help" thing like Kaianuanu said:

Chameleon info-
-no chameleon yet


Cage info- Testing set up use before purchasing chameleon, everything that says "not set up yet" is still in the mail.

-Cage type
Repti breeze screen terrarium 18*18*36"

-Lighting
5.0 UVB reptisun (daytime)
150w ExoTerra daytime heat lamp (daytime)
100w Zoo Med moonlite reptile bulb (nighttime)
everything is on a timer (13 hours for daytime)

-Temperature
lowest temps at floor, highest at basking spot near top
60-70F night time
65-75F day time (this is why I'm getting the heat rope, I'm planning to reach a temp of 75-90F during the day and getting night temp up about 5 degrees)
big apple herp heat rope - not yet set up
hygrotherm - not yet set up
I can alter temps depending on chameleon's needs
Temps measured using a digital thermometer

-Humidity
30-75% daytime
50-80% nighttime
Using a repti fogger on a timer
turns on for 30min every 3 hours during the day and every 2 hours at night
Humidity measured using a digital hygrometer
I have a mister to use a few times daily
have a dripper - not set up yet

-Plants
All fake, many vines and leaves

-Placement
My basement behind my desk.
It's a very quiet, secluded area.
There are two ceiling fans. They are typically off.
The terrarium is 25 inches off the ground.

-Location
South Jersey Shore


Current Problem-
-Unsure of what chameleon species to start with
-Any ideas to help with the heating issue in the terrarium? My basement is cold (60F) and I'm not supposed to turn on the basement heat.

I think a flapneck would be an excellent option, I also like a jackson. But the biggest thing to decide is what YOU want. If you want a flapneck, then get one. As long as you get a captive bred and born, you will be fine. Often chams are listed as cb for captive born, not captive bred, just something to watch out for.

Changes to set up I would make

100w Zoo Med moonlite reptile bulb (nighttime)Get rid of it, the light will disrupt the chams sleep

big apple herp heat rope - not yet set up again don't use as your cham could burn his feet

Not worry about your temps. With a larger watt heat light you can raise temps easy. For heat lights I use a regular incandescent household bulb.

Lower night temp is good for chams. A jackson would be fine down to 60, I will check on a flapneck and get back to you.

Use live plants. You can get a pothos and have to beat them to death with a stick. They help keep humidity up and chams seem to like them better that fake ones. I wrap mine around the sticks in the cage so they go all over. Plus they are cheap.

 

[Sinfulintent]

I liked the repti-carpet thing when I used it, get a big sheet have one dry one in the cage, that way when you clean one you can just replace it with the other and let the original dry.. keep it on rotation..

I wasn't happy with the repti-fogger but maybe it was just me, the fan in it stopped working multiple times after a few months, I'd have to tear it apart and fiddle with it. didn't see anything wrong with the wires or anything.. may have been the small motor in the fan that just didn't want to work. I'd say get rid of the fogger and use the mister more, or get a real fogger like one you'd use in a child's room, hook up a clean vacuum hose to it and use that.

Someone said ditch the hammock, I personally like the hammock how ever it was a pain to clean and the suction cups kinda sucked. but it was good to use to put worms and stuff on instead of a feeder cup. So I guess that would be up to you

 

[Reptilelover47]

I wouldn't use a repti carpet unless you are washing and putting in a dry one daily, they just won't dry fast enough inside a cage and will harbor bacteria. If you don't like the white PVC floor, you could possibly look for some black plastic sheeting to make a new floor out of.

So, I don't need to put anything on the bottom? That's easy. lol.

I liked the repti-carpet thing when I used it, get a big sheet have one dry one in the cage, that way when you clean one you can just replace it with the other and let the original dry.. keep it on rotation..

I wasn't happy with the repti-fogger but maybe it was just me, the fan in it stopped working multiple times after a few months, I'd have to tear it apart and fiddle with it. didn't see anything wrong with the wires or anything.. may have been the small motor in the fan that just didn't want to work. I'd say get rid of the fogger and use the mister more, or get a real fogger like one you'd use in a child's room, hook up a clean vacuum hose to it and use that.

Someone said ditch the hammock, I personally like the hammock how ever it was a pain to clean and the suction cups kinda sucked. but it was good to use to put worms and stuff on instead of a feeder cup. So I guess that would be up to you

I have leopard geckos in my brother's room (trying to teach him responsibility with something easy) and we rotate repti carpets when cleaning them. It works pretty well. I think that for now I will just leave the bottom empty though for the chameleon. We also have hammocks in with the geckos and considering they're ground geckos they really love the hammocks which is why I got one for the chameleon. They can be a pain to clean properly, but suction cups are't an issue. I attached the hammock to the chameleon's screen terrarium with plastic fasteners that seem like they're part of the screen itself, so I don't have to worry about it falling.

Thanks for all the info and opinions everyone. You all made awesome points and I appreciated everyone's opinions, you guys def. sent me on more of a research rampage than I was already. lol. I do think I'm going to go with the flap neck after all. I've found captive bred babies newly available on reptilesncritters.com and after all my research and knowing what I have set up so far and what would need to be changed if I went with something bigger, like a panther, I think I want to stick with something small. Small suits me better. It seems that as long as it's captive bred it should make a good beginner if I'm up for it, and I always am. I know myself well and typically when I go against my instinct of what I can handle I regret it, so I think that since I still feel that after all this I should get the flap neck, that that's what I'll do. But, I have to say that I'm getting more and more excited about chameleons the more I hear what everyone has to say. I hope I wind up owning many in the future. I'd love that.

But one more question... with the flap neck... I should get a male right? lol.

THANK YOU!!!! Once everything's settled I'll order the lil guy and post some pics on here.