Whats Happening to my Chamelons Tail?

[verpas23]

Hey guys, I started to see things on my veileds tail. First it started off with the big black spot which has not changed at all and now more little ones are showing up. She moving and eating fine and curling it. Was wondering if it might look like it could be something else besides tail rot?

The big one was there for nearly a month. I've attached what her cage looks like.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon. Around a year old

How long has it been in your care? 4 months

Handling - Couple times a day as it always wants to leave her cage and explore. Shes restless at the moment as shes forming eggs.


Feeding - Crickets/mealworms/sometimes silk worms. She eats 9 small crickets. 1 mealworm a day nearly. I feed her in the morning like 11 and then at 5pm. Im gutloading crickets with dandelion leaves, collards, carrot, sweet potato, bee pollen, cucumber, apple.

Supplements - I dust calcium in every feeding. Multivitamin twice a month. 15 and 1st of the month. Reptivite just today. Before it was repashy without calcium.

Watering - misting pump twice a day morning and night. She just opens her mouth to drink and not often does she lick off leaves.

Fecal Description - a little yellow urate. Was never tested for parasites.
History - they had no problems

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen
What are the dimensions? 16x16x20
Lighting - T5 HO 5.0 UVB
What is your daily lighting schedule? 8am-8pm
Temperature - around high 60s low 70s basking temp is around 85
Lowest overnight tempt: high 50s

How do you measure these temps? temperature gauge
Humidity - around 40s
How are you creating and maintaining these levels? i spray in the morning and night only and just leave it. There are also pants in the cage

Plants - Pothos, not sure the name of the other one

Placement - Where is your cage located? In my solarium/office. Not a lot od traffic to none at all

At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
3ish feet?


Location - Where are you geographically located? Canada BC, Vancouver

Current Problem - Tail spots

 

[Gingero]

I’ve been helping this keeper with their husbandry and should mention they very recently switched to Reptivite with D3 instead of Repashy LoD for their multivitamin after I saw the edema that has formed. I also helped them get a proper laying bin set up and recommended raising the T5 UVB bulb up above the enclosure until they can get a larger enclosure. I don’t have much experience with tail rot and since the existing spots haven’t gone away and new ones are forming, that’s my hunch but not sure what the solution would be beyond seeking vet care.

 

[Beman]

Hi there welcome to the forum. I can go through husbandry tomorrow unless @MissSkittles can do it today.

But can you clarify this for me? I need pics of the supplement labels you were using. We can see edema with females during their gravid period. Sometimes it has something to do with supplements and sometimes it is just from being gravid. But with this is the calcium your using calcium without D3? Repashy LoD is a calcium multivitamin. So this is where pics of the labels will help us to help you.
Are you adding bee pollen only to the gutload?

Supplements - I dust calcium in every feeding. Multivitamin twice a month. 15 and 1st of the month. Reptivite just today. Before it was repashy without calcium.

Also how are you feeding the crickets to her? Free feeding in the cage? Like letting them loose in the cage? If so these marks very well could be bites from crickets.

 

[Gingero]

Thanks for chiming Beman. Should also mention the edema showed up prior to her becoming gravid which leads me to believe it may be caused by the multivitamin. I’ve see quite a few chams develop edema after using the Repashy LoD but only time will tell once she lays her eggs to know what the cause is/was.

Interesting thought on the crickets! I haven’t seen many cricket bites before. Do they look like the marks in the pic?

 

[verpas23]

Hi there welcome to the forum. I can go through husbandry tomorrow unless @MissSkittles can do it today.

But can you clarify this for me? I need pics of the supplement labels you were using. We can see edema with females during their gravid period. Sometimes it has something to do with supplements and sometimes it is just from being gravid. But with this is the calcium your using calcium without D3? Repashy LoD is a calcium multivitamin. So this is where pics of the labels will help us to help you.
Are you adding bee pollen only to the gutload?


Also how are you feeding the crickets to her? Free feeding in the cage? Like letting them loose in the cage? If so these marks very well could be bites from crickets.

Hi, they sometimes escape I guess? It's hard to tell because I put them in a cup but a couple do jump out but most of them stay in the cup because it's deep enough.

Also I gutload bee pollen for the crickets. They are granules so I soak them in water to get them in liquid form.

I've attached the vitamins.

 

[verpas23]

Thanks for chiming Beman. Should also mention the edema showed up prior to her becoming gravid which leads me to believe it may be caused by the multivitamin. I’ve see quite a few chams develop edema after using the Repashy LoD but only time will tell once she lays her eggs to know what the cause is/was.

Interesting thought on the crickets! I haven’t seen many cricket bites before. Do they look like the marks in the pic?

Yes that's why I changed my multivitamin to see if it goes away. I was using this before.

 

[verpas23]

Updated cage pictures

 

[kinyonga]

Please post some more photos of her so I can see all of her…including the legs…especially the back left ankle.

How small are the crickets you’re feeding her?
can you show one near her so I can see the size of them both please?

 

[verpas23]

Here are some photos you needed as she was escaping her cage lol

 

[kinyonga]

Leg is ok…thought there was a problem but it was the photo.

 

[bbyoda]

If the crickets are getting out, place some food at the bottom of the enclosure for them. Then they won't be as tempted to bite your chameleon. (If that's the issue). Your girl is pretty, love seeing those leg muscles!! You are in good hands with @Gingero and @Beman and @kinyonga - they help a lot of people and have great experience!

 

[kinyonga]

The size of the crickets are good. I hope she hasn’t been overeating which will cause her to produce a large clutch.

Are the black marks bumped out/raised?

 

[verpas23]

The size of the crickets are good. I hope she hasn’t been overeating which will cause her to produce a large clutch.

Are the black marks bumped out/raised?

Ohh okay I'll try not to feed her as much, how many of those do you think I should give her in a day? Also the bigger spot is raised and smaller ones a bit. The one at the tip not really.

 

[kinyonga]

When a chameleon is making eggs IMHO it’s too late to decrease her eating….the number of follicles/eggs has already been set. You want her to have the nutrition needed to get through the process now and hope she can get through it all ok…then after she’s laid the eggs, feed her well for two feedings and then cut her back to the diet and appropriate temperatures. I’m not a vet….it’s just my opinion.

 

[verpas23]

She was eating a lot actually when I was feeling her because she was still young and read that it's important to feed her a lot

 

[kinyonga]

They need to eat well when they are young to grow, but as they approach sexual maturity they need to be gradually fed less and fed less often, so we put them on the diet we recommend to prevent them from developing follicular stasis and dystopia (egg binding). Overfeeding once they are almost full grown will push them into producing huge clutches and ending up unable to lay the eggs or to only lay some of them, etc.

 

[Beman]

Thanks for chiming Beman. Should also mention the edema showed up prior to her becoming gravid which leads me to believe it may be caused by the multivitamin. I’ve see quite a few chams develop edema after using the Repashy LoD but only time will tell once she lays her eggs to know what the cause is/was.

Interesting thought on the crickets! I haven’t seen many cricket bites before. Do they look like the marks in the pic?

Yeah the Repashy she was using was the regular not the LoD so there is one issue. Too intense to use with chams much less a female.

We have seen edema with the use of bee pollen as well.

Bites from crickets can be black like that as well.

 

[Beman]

Hi, they sometimes escape I guess? It's hard to tell because I put them in a cup but a couple do jump out but most of them stay in the cup because it's deep enough.

Also I gutload bee pollen for the crickets. They are granules so I soak them in water to get them in liquid form.

I've attached the vitamins.

Ok use these two... But stop adding the bee pollen into the gutload. It may be too much for her system to handle. Depending on how much you are adding it may be another element of edema. The repashy would be a part of it as well because it is the regular calcium plus which has higher levels of D3 and A then the LoD version that we recommend. Make sure you are lightly dusting the feeders they should not look like powdered donuts and she should not be able to eat excess powder from the bowl.

 

[Beman]

Ok see my feedback in red bold...


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon. Around a year old
How long has it been in your care? 4 months

Handling - Couple times a day as it always wants to leave her cage and explore. Shes restless at the moment as shes forming eggs. Avoid taking her out of the cage right now. With her being gravid she will be restless. She needs to discover her lay bin and start exploring that. By you taking her from the cage and letting her move around she now thinks she has this area to lay in. We want to avoid the potential for her becoming egg bound.


Feeding - Crickets/mealworms/sometimes silk worms. She eats 9 small crickets. 1 mealworm a day nearly. I feed her in the morning like 11 and then at 5pm. Im gutloading crickets with dandelion leaves, collards, carrot, sweet potato, bee pollen, cucumber, apple. Drop using the bee pollen for now in case this is contributing to the edema. You are over feeding her. And you do not want to feed at all in the evening. Once she gets through laying this clutch you will feed her well for a week then you need to cut back her food intake. She should be getting no more than 3 medium feeders 3 days a week. This is going to help control clutch size. the larger the clutch the more risk of health issues and egg binding.

Supplements - I dust calcium in every feeding. Multivitamin twice a month. 15 and 1st of the month. Reptivite just today. Before it was repashy without calcium. Toss the repashy it is the wrong type for a chameleon. Stick to calcium without D3 every feeding and then 2 times a month the reptivite. If prior you were only using the repashy this would be a large part of the edema issue. If that is the case and you were not using calcium without d3 and only the repashy. You want to not give any multivitamin for 4 weeks and only use the calcium without D3. She needs her body to clear the D3 and A toxicity. Which can only happen with time since these are fat soluble and store in the organs and tissues.

Watering - misting pump twice a day morning and night. She just opens her mouth to drink and not often does she lick off leaves. Is she having issues targeting with her tongue? Add a dripper during the day. This can be as easy as setting a few ice cubes over her plants on the screen to melt and drip. Make sure they are not dripping into the lay bin.

Fecal Description - a little yellow urate. Was never tested for parasites.
History - they had no problems
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen
What are the dimensions? 16x16x20.. Far too small. You want to order a 24x24x48 sized cage. Wait to move her and her stuff into this until she gets through laying this clutch.
Lighting - T5 HO 5.0 UVB... This is good but your distance from this fixture to the branches is too close. You need 8-9 measured inches to put her in the right UVB level. Raise the fixture up or drop the branches down to accommodate this.
What is your daily lighting schedule? 8am-8pm
Temperature - around high 60s low 70s basking temp is around 85 Basking is far too high. This is going to speed up her metabolism. Females should be kept 78-80 max to help control clutch size. Temperature and food intake directly impact clutch size. So fix the temp now so she starts getting used to it. Raise the fixture off the top to get the right temp or drop branches down.
Lowest overnight tempt: high 50s good.
How do you measure these temps? temperature gauge
Humidity - around 40s good.
How are you creating and maintaining these levels? i spray in the morning and night only and just leave it. There are also pants in the cage
Plants - Pothos, not sure the name of the other one all fake plants need to be removed from the cage. You can hang them on the outside but they are dangerous in a cage with a veiled. Pose an impaction risk should she get pieces off of them.
Placement - Where is your cage located? In my solarium/office. Not a lot od traffic to none at all
At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
3ish feet?
Location - Where are you geographically located? Canada BC, Vancouver

Current Problem - Tail spots Most likely from cricket bites... Could also be she is cutting herself on something in the cage or even getting her tail too close the the heat fixture and causing a minor thermal burn.


Make sure your lay bin is moist play sand. Make sure you can dig a test tunnel with a spoon and that it holds its shape and does not colapse. You want to hang a sheet half way up the sides of the cage so that the bottom half of the cage is covered. Leave the top half of the cage uncovered. This will give her privacy to start digging and exploring her lay bin.

 

[JacksJill]

This has been reported in cases of excess vitamin D. If you were feeding the Repashy with D3 daily that would do it. If you are certain too much D has been given try dropping it for a month or more. It won't save the affected area but could prevent more damage.
D3 Poisoning