When to let go?

[Blender]

I need some advice. My veiled chameleon is 7 1/2 years old and has been suffering from Metabolic Bone Disorder since December. My mistake caused it. His uv light fixture broke after 7 years and I replaced it with a bell light with a uv bulb recommended by the pet store. Well, a few months later my chameleon became unable to hold on with his rear legs. I have taken him to the vet now several times and he seemed to improve for awhile. He gained weight and seemed perkier but now seems to be going downhill again.

I have been feeding him critical care formula and assisting him in catching crickets, superworms and waxworms. Although now he has become a bit snobby and doesn't want crickets at all. He seems alert and awake, but he is very weak. He can hardly hold up his upper body anymore. I had him in a tupperware bin and he would try to climb out and end up at the bottom of the cage. I recently turned his tall screened in cage sideways so he could scoot along the bottom and regulate his temp better. It is working a bit.

But what i really want to know is this... will he improve? I feel as though he is suffering. Although it is stressful seeing him like this and knowing that he may never improve, I can keep him going by really just hand feeding and doing what I have been doing for 9 months. But is it cruel to keep him like this. He must be in pain. The vet says he can improve and live to 12 years. But I sometimes question her actual knowledge about chams. Let me know what you all think.

Thanks!

 

[Elizadolots]

Your chameleon is quite old and with all animals, it's hard to keep the bones strong as they age.

I think 12 would be an extremely long time for a veiled to live. I'm not saying they don't do it, but you know, people live to 112..that doesn't mean someone who dies at 85 died way too young.

You need to talk with the vet about the program of recovery she has in mind. If it sounds reasonable to you then it's probably worth a shot.

If she's just saying to keep the status quo, then I suspect you already know your response to that or you wouldn't be asking.

And, it's YOUR gut instinct that's important here. You've had this animal for a really long time, you know if it's having a worthwhile life or not.

 

[Blender]

Thanks. I got him as a tiny little 3 inch long baby and he was really healthy up to that point. I feel now as if nothing I am doing is right for him. I keep trying new things and nothing works. I think turning the cage is a good idea, I just don;t know if he is too far gone at this point. Have you heard of anyone whose cham came back from MBD that extreme? Ultimately, if he doesn't improve in the next month or so with this change, I think it might be time. So sad.

 

[carol5208]

you obviously have been doing something right to have sustained him for over 7 years. Are you completely sure that he has MBD? How long was he without UVB? Have you been supplementing him all these years with calcium? Maybe there is something else going on that is not MBD? Could you post a few pics of him? As far as us telling you what to do, I think that has to be your call. It is never easy to make that decision. I had to do it with my dog. My husband let our dog linger on for too long as he was listening to his heart and not his head. I guess that is the best advice I can give you is to not let your emotions stand in the way of doing what is right. My heart goes out you as I can see you really love your chameleon very much. I don't think any of us can predict if he can get better either. If he does truly have MBD, then it is not curable as I am sure you know.

 

[Blender]

Thanks. I have read that MBD is not curable, but the vet insisted over 4 visits that it is. I am not sure she is really knowledgeable about chams. She has had other reptiles and uses that as a reference I think. Anyhow, I changed the light and about 4 or 5 months later he was really weak. I of course went and spent the big bucks on a new lamp, but no real change has happened.

Wow, now I kinda feel bad keeping him hanging on like this. I really kept thinking he was going to get well again. Thank you for telling me that. My poor guy. He has been a trooper. I wish I could give him an advil or something.

 

[carol5208]

Like I said are you sure it is MBD? Did she do xrays on his limbs? Usually you can tell a chameleon has MBD by just looking at its legs. It is pretty easy to detect but that too may be in the more advanced stages of it. Does he ever grab his front legs with his back legs? That is another sign. I am just trying top make sure that your cham is being diagnosed properly and he does not have some other type of issue going on. Is he pooping regularly?

 

[Blender]

He has almost no use of his back legs. His tail is crooked and he is now very weak in the front as well. His poops seem pretty normal and regular. It is strange cause he seems otherwise healthy.

She did not do xrays or blood tests. She seems to not really be over concerned about much. They weigh him and do a visual inspection and that is about it. He had an abscess that came out and left a gaping hole in his side and she said to just leave it and keep it clean. After three months it is finally healing. I like that she is not an alarmist and eager to do a million tests that cost a fortune, but I would like a bit more care for him.

Anyhow, I am pretty sure that is what it is. But he is an old boy so I guess it could be something else.

 

[carol5208]

The reason about the back legs because I remember reading on here that an impaction of some sort could cause a chameleon to lose use of its back legs, but if he is pooping then I guess that would rule that out. Wow, I am sorry you are in that position. Chameleons can survive with MBD. I have seen plenty of them on here. Most of them acquire it in the early stages of life when their bones are developing though. The protocol is usually to have a vet give calcium injections which draw the calcium directly into the bones. I don't know at this point if that would be beneficial for your guy. Have you thought about getting a second opinion just for peice of mind? So your chameleon was without uvb for 4 months? i am not so sure with his bones being developed if that would really cause him to get MBD. I could be wrong though. Did you dust your feeders with calcium? Did you ever take him outside for natural sunshine during this time? Do his limbs look all curvy?

 

[Elizadolots]

Damage cannot be undone...but progress can be halted and strength regained.

Again, does your vet have a game plan? If so, and if it makes sense to you, then I would say give it a try. But if she doesn't have a plan, if all she says is "keep doing what you're doing" and you don't think that's a positive course, then do what your heart tells you.

You've obviously been a great chameleon parent and you have no reason to feel badly. I think most of us would feel very good about getting a tiny baby and keeping it alive for almost 8 years. That is truly a sign of good parenting.

Turning his cage was a GREAT idea. Getting him a new light was a great idea. Getting him to a vet was a great idea. You have nothing to feel bad about.

 

[chameleoman]

im gonna say my honest opinion here ,

youve done really really well since youve been able to keep him alive for 7 years!!! and thats good. but hes lived a long, happy, nice life and its completely your choice what you want to do to/with him because hes youre little boy i would be devastated if i had that choice with my veiled but again honestly this is my opinion he had a good run but if hes suffering i would put him down . sorry

 

[camimom]

When it hurts more to see him suffering and in pain, than it does to no longer have him in your life, is when its time to let go.

he has lived a long life, and im sure he has been very rewarding for you.


I hope you can come to some sort of decision, but no matter what, this forum is here for you.

almost every senior member has lost a cham at some point in their cham keeping years, and it never gets easier, no matter the age of the cham.

 

[K9Luvn]

My heart is with you as you go though this heartbreaking time.

 

[Blender]

Thank you all so much for your kind and helpful words. I really appreciate all of the input.

I have been waiting to see whether the turned cage would work but it does not seem to be helping too much.

A few days ago, I came in to find him laying on his side covered and being attacked by ants. I rescued him and cleaned him off. He was pretty weak after that. Today he seems perkier. This of course makes my decision harder but I think that in the next week I am going to take him in. I am sad but I feel like he has had a good life. I realized last week that I calculated wrong. We got him in May of 04 which means he made it past 8 years old. Good old boy.

 

[arnau666]

i am sorry for your boy ...whatever you will do you will make the right call.
amazing that he reached more than 8 years .you did an amazing job with him.
if you have pics of him through the years you can post them.i really want to see this beauty .

 

[lisagr07]

I think you know what is right to do FOR HIM, it is the hardest thing for US to do. I've had to make the call twice with cats that I had loved for 13and 15 years...... It was the absolute hardest thing for me to do but the most caring thing I could do for them..... You know when it's time,,,,, I didn't think I would know, but it was a no brainer when I really opened my eyes!!!!!!
My thoughts and prayers are with you!!!!!!

 

[justjumpit621]

He is quite an old boy living past 8! They normally don't live far past 5 But to be honest the loss of use of his back legs and tail, now his front, makes me think of my veiled chameleon Leopold. It is not MBD, it sounds like kidney failure which unfortunately will not be cured It was very painful to watch my boy struggle, he went down hill very fast.

 

[Elizadolots]

I'm so sorry. You obviously are an amazing chameleon parent.