When to use 10.0 or 5.0 UVB

[cricketkilla]

Thought it would be a good thread to start for new people and for a good discussion. I have no experience with the 10.0, and was wondering if it should be used for a 24" x 24" x 48" enclosure over a 5.0.. I hate using d3 supplements due to how sensitive some chameleons are to them, and was wondering if I could do away with d3 supps. Over the winter and switch back to 5.0 for my spring bulb change. Don't wanna fry my chams, just wanna help them keep the TAN in their GTL. (GYM, TAN, LAUNDRY for all you old farts lol)

 

[BocaJan]

My herp vet recommends 10.0 because of the UVB output. If you have a meter you can see that a 10 puts out about 140 new where a 5.0 is about 50 new. The kicker is, if you measure outside light it goes up to about 450. I use them and my chamyfamy is happier.

 

[SarahcoadunatioZac]

Wait, so 10.0 is okay to use for chameleons? I keep seeing that 10.0 is for desert animals and thus bad for chameleons.

 

[bradley]

Bulbs should no loger be bought for specific animals like 5.0 for rainforest animals and 10.0 for desert animals. It depends on the height of the enclosure, how heavily decorated it is and if there is a screen blocking the uv in any way.

I personally use 12% arcadia T5 bulbs on all my chams and they do great under them (veilds and panthers). They cannot get burnt. Aslong as the chameleon can get away from the uv I always give them the otion for them to bask in it incase they want to.

 

[cricketkilla]

​

Wait, so 10.0 is okay to use for chameleons? I keep seeing that 10.0 is for desert animals and thus bad for chameleons.

Really depends on age, species, enclosure size, etc..

To bocajan,

I do not have a uv meter yet, but that is quite interesting. Most people tend to recommend the 5.0, do you think d3 supplementation is necessary at those levels? Maybe lightly once a month still? Thanks for the info BTW

 

[SarahcoadunatioZac]

I'm setting my guy up with free range at the moment, planned on posting pics to get advice on UVB and humidity.

Recently the vet I took my male veiled 4months? to said that if they get adequate "big sun" time (3 hours a week) and UVB then d3 isn't really needed.

 

[AngieL]

I'm setting my guy up with free range at the moment, planned on posting pics to get advice on UVB and humidity.

Recently the vet I took my male veiled 4months? to said that if they get adequate "big sun" time (3 hours a week) and UVB then d3 isn't really needed.

I really don't think 3 hours a week would replace the need for UVB lights and d3! Maybe 3 hours a DAY would be ample.

For a free range you might want to use a higher percentage bulb as it will be more difficult to direct it somewhere specific like in an enclosure. I've got a mercury vapour bulb pointed at our little free range. I use the mv because it has UVB and heat, doesn't need to be close to my cham for it to provide heat and UVB.

 

[aholgate]

I've been using a 10.0 in my male's cage for almost a year now. The cage measures 5' x 3' x 2', so a little bigger than your typical XL cage. So far it's been perfect, it really does have a lot to do with he depth of the cage. In all my other cages (which are no taller than 3') I use 5.0 bulbs.

 

[carol5208]

On Kammerflage Kreations website(a reputable breeder of 32 yrs) they state do NOT use a 10.0 as it emits too much phosphorus and can harm and even kill your chameleon. That is a pretty strong statement. I emailed them to explain this, but never got a response. It seems there are more and more people using them with no problems from what I have read. Personally I use the 5.0's

 

[chameleonkev]

So what about with the Arcadia bulbs, do you use the 6% or 12%? I have 6% an have no problems but would be interesting to here of more of you

 

[coldbloodedAL]

Personally i dont use anything less than a 10.0 or 12% anymore and i dont see any reason to. Waste of money imo... A UV meter is a invaluable tool and everyone who keeps chams indoors should have one.

If someone is concerned with too high of UV levels its as simple as placing a piece of screen between the fixture and screen of the cage. But I believe with a properly set up cage(plenty of foilage and runways) this should not even be of concern.

Keep in mind that loss of UVB through screen can and often does EXCEED 50%!! To me that is a concern when using a 5.0 or 6% bulb...

 

[carol5208]

I wonder where Kammers got that info from??? I have tried to find out a couple of times but they never responded.

 

[AngieL]

well I use an arcadia 12% and have had no issues with her eyes or otherwise. I have her in a 4 foot tall tank and the uv light is on top along the back so she can get out of it if she wants. The reason I use that % is because my girl very rarely gets outside and the 5.0 T8 bulb looked like nothing was getting through the mesh, like it harly even lit up the tank!

Of course a young cham wouldn't get on well with a high uvb bulb and a smaller enclosure probably wouldn't warrant one but it all depends on the circumstances, age placement, enclosure etc.

 

[carol5208]

Living in Florida, for me the % of the bulb has never been an issue cause mine live outdoors the majority of the time. I would probably be more concerned and do more research and trial if I housed them indoors. The only time they go in their indoor cages is if it is too cold or too extremely hot and no one is going to be home to monitor them. We are very spoiled here in this state being able to keep them outside basically year round!!

 

[Decadancin]

So, I have noticed that now that Zaphod is in his new, heavily "planted" (more like anchored) home, I don't see much light getting through to the depths of the castle! For a solution, I am considering some LED's around the top of the frame. But for UVB I'm now considering an Arcadia 12%. I think as the winter months set in, I can use a new bulb, and as there is more lighting during spring and summer, I can still get enough UVB from the old bulb. Perhaps only buy one bulb a year?!? I still think I will have to supplement with D3 at least monthly, though even with more UVB, unless I noticed him really basking under it constantly.

One other question, does anyone have a light meter that shows lumens, UVA, UVB, etc. that I don't have to re-mortgage the house to get it?

 

[coldbloodedAL]

Living in Florida, for me the % of the bulb has never been an issue cause mine live outdoors the majority of the time. I would probably be more concerned and do more research and trial if I housed them indoors. The only time they go in their indoor cages is if it is too cold or too extremely hot and no one is going to be home to monitor them. We are very spoiled here in this state being able to keep them outside basically year round!!

This is by far the best option over all, and I envy you for that

Everyone should make it a point to get their chams outside for some sun whenever possible.

I am unsure of the phosphorus issue that the kammers are claiming but maybe Todd from LYR will have an answer for that... But keepers are having good results so far using higher output bulbs. It will take years of using these bulbs to know for sure that there is no issues using these but until I see otherwise, I will use them

 

[carol5208]

This is by far the best option over all, and I envy you for that

Everyone should make it a point to get their chams outside for some sun whenever possible.

I am unsure of the phosphorus issue that the kammers are claiming but maybe Todd from LYR will have an answer for that... But keepers are having good results so far using higher output bulbs. It will take years of using these bulbs to know for sure that there is no issues using these but until I see otherwise, I will use them

I agree and I think Todd or someone questioned this before when I posted it and said he would be interested in info on Kammer's claim. Like I said if you go on their website and look under their caresheet on lighting(unless they changed it) it says a 10.0 can kill your chameleons!!!edit: this is copy and pasted from their website:: During periods of time when regular sunlight exposure is not possible, indoor setups should have two lighting sources in place. One should provide for UVA/UVB exposure and the other is a basking site for heat regulation. These are two separate requirements that should not be confused. Our #1 recommended UVA/UVB light is ZooMed's ReptiSun 5.0 fluorescent bulb. An important WARNING to mention is to NEVER use a 10.0 bulb on a chameleon. "More" is not better in this case. The phosphorus levels that are emitted are much too high for a chameleon, and this output of UV can actually harm or even kill your chameleon! Change the UVA/UVB bulbs periodically as recommended by the manufacturer. The life span of the bulb will vary according to its usage. UVA/UVB lighting sources do not emit adequate heat for your chameleon to warm up under, so you will need to provide a separate basking site for this purpose.

 

[fluxlizard]

Bulbs should no loger be bought for specific animals like 5.0 for rainforest animals and 10.0 for desert animals. It depends on the height of the enclosure, how heavily decorated it is and if there is a screen blocking the uv in any way.

Also in the labratory, chameleons have been shown to "bask" in UV according to their needs. In other words- if you have a 10 located along one end or an enclosure otherwise large enough, the lizard will move away from it when it has had enough, and closer to it when it needs more. Overdose from a 10.0 tube, if even possible, which I doubt-these are mostly tropical lizards from tropical areas where there is a lot of UV-, in theory overdose should only be likely if you are keeping the lizard in a small enclosure where it cannot escape the UV.

So for me- it all keeps going back to giving the lizards lots of options in a large enough enclosure to provide them and letting the lizard choose what it needs when it needs it.

I don't know anything about phosphorous- but I use 10.0s over large enclosures indoors without any problems for a couple of years now. Summers my lizards are outdoors in real sunlight and fresh air.

 

[carol5208]

Also in the labratory, chameleons have been shown to "bask" in UV according to their needs. In other words- if you have a 10 located along one end or an enclosure otherwise large enough, the lizard will move away from it when it has had enough, and closer to it when it needs more. Overdose from a 10.0 tube, if even possible, which I doubt-these are mostly tropical lizards from tropical areas where there is a lot of UV-, in theory overdose should only be likely if you are keeping the lizard in a small enclosure where it cannot escape the UV.

So for me- it all keeps going back to giving the lizards lots of options in a large enough enclosure to provide them and letting the lizard choose what it needs when it needs it.

I don't know anything about phosphorous- but I use 10.0s over large enclosures indoors without any problems for a couple of years now. Summers my lizards are outdoors in real sunlight and fresh air.

Flux, I agree with you as it seems more and more people are using the 10.0's. I just think it is a very strong statement to post on your website that it could kill your chameleon. Don't know if it is something they have experienced or something someone has told them and they are passing along the info. I have been trying to find out to no avail so far!!!

 

[Lovereps]

I think there are too many variables for anyone to post a definitve answer.
Some people have the fixtures resting upon the screen, others suspend the fixtures inches above the screen, some screens are more reflective or have a tighter weave than others, etc.
As for the phosphorus issue--I believe that they're referring to too much UV being emitted by the phosphor.
According to these websites, not all fluorescent bulbs contain phosphorus, though the powder coating inside that makes the bulbs look white is called a phosphor.
http://fusedweb.pppl.gov/cpep/chart_pages/5.Plasmas/Fluorescent.html

http://www.ledlightingwholesale.com...s-will-cause-increase-in-fluorescent-lighting

In the end, the correct answer must be, "It all depends...."