White senegal, is he depressed?

[ttaylor]

Well, I haven't changed anything with my husbandry recently, besides not giving the heptivite as often as I was (which was about four times too much as rec. around here) and I have been paying close attention to what is said in general. I have had him for almost six months, and have seen nothing but improvement and growth, and I have tried to fine tune my husbandry as well.

Recently, it seems as though he has 'become a man'. His behavior seems more aggressive (not overly, just moreso) and I have really noticed a bulge at his tail as well as seeing the hemipene flashed.

However, it also seems as if he is no longer content with his plants, or his cage, or something. I do need to 'sturdy' things up a bit, as he is now bigger, but I feel there is something more going on.

The biggest thing is his coloring has changed. He was usually green, to a 'tanned' green in the basking area. He would turn chocolate brown when he went to the bottom of the cage to defecate, and a very bright lime green at roost.

Now, his greens have been replaced with almost white! He seems to be brown alot more, but also seems to bask further from the bulb area. He has darker brown chevrons, and it is very pretty. The lack or the very bright greens, though, worries me.


I'm wondering if maybe his UVB is loosing it's output. I don't have a meter. It is a reptisun 5.0 compact bulb. It says it should last 12 mo. but for some reason I was thinking 6. Either way, it could have taken a dump...

I want to get him outside into some real sun to see what that does. he certainly likes me less and less, though he will eat crickets I hold for him. If nothing else is wrong, maybe it is just that he is now so healthy that all his natural instincts are coming back, and this cage business is too much


This is him getting ready to roost this evening.

by comparison, this is almost a month to the day previous. Basking color, though the patches at the base of his tail are the brighter green.

Interestingly, there was something going on with the patches of brighter green at the base of his tail. There were some orange-ish specks there, and it never seemed to change from his bright green color. It seemed to fade day to day, and he soon shed, and I haven't really noticed it since. I wasn't sure what that might be

 

[kinyonga]

Perhaps he's too hot?

 

[ttaylor]

I was kinda thinking that, being the lighter color, but nothing really shold have changed.. unless he just wants things to be cooler now. At night, it's probably 73, as I don't keep my house A/c sent any lower.

 

[ttaylor]

It's not looking good.

Today at lunch (I make it home within my hour) I went to feed him a cricket, but he seemed disinterested. Not totally unusual, he only eats when he feels like it.

However, I left the cage door open, and as I was heating food, I noticed he was making his way towards the door. I was curious what would happen. He made it to the edge, climbed onto the screen and out onto the open door. He made it all the way out to the top edge, and I offered him my hand. He sat there, but didn't take the opportunity, as usual. Instead, he started up and along the top of the door, walking back to the top of the cage, past the heat light and up the dripper tube. He got to the tank, got frustrated that he could go no further, and eventually turned back. All this was chameleon times, so at least 10 minutes.

He sort of walked back toward the heat lamp on it's cord, but didn't go too far. I was worried about him burning himself at this point. He didn't seem to be making too much of a decision, and was very brown, and probably getting cold. I offered my hand, which he used only as a way to get off the cord and down onto the top of the cage on the other side.

I was hoping he would eventually make his way back into the cage, realizing it was the best place for him he could find in the vicinity. Sadly, time being of the essence at this point, I got involved again. I went to the other side and offered my hand again, which he backed away from, toward the heat lamp. The more I tried to coax, the closer he got to the lamp, and he moved his face nearly against it. I put my other hand out to keep him from it, at the risk of scareing him, which it did. He took off and flipped himself right off the edge of the cage, and fell flat on his back!

He flipped himself over, and seemed rather stunned, as I could imagine. I put my hand out and helped him as he climbed up the front of the cage and then swiftly into it and up the money tree.

He seems fine from the fall, but he is definitely not fine in general. He promptly ended up in the back of the cage, up the screen, and then hanging under the UVB light. he flipped himself around and started jabbing at the screen with his front foot. I was hesitant to leave at this point, but I really had to. He did stop this before I left, but still seemed rather discontent.


I don't know if the coloration is a sign or coincidence, but he is definitely not happy. I don't know if just a larger cage would help, or if captivity in general will never work out for him.

Part of me still wonders if it's possibly this is a reaction to low or no UVB. Maybe I just want to think it's as easy as a bulb that crapped out

 

[jessica]

Like kinyonga mentioned with the summer months may be hes too warm.

If you fill this out https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ may be we can spot something in your husbandry that may help.

 

[seanUTD]

My advice is let him be... It is obvious that your hand is more related to pain or fear right now than anything good.... Just give him some space to come around... Make sure that no other issues exist and if you have to cover his cage with a sheet to block out traffic or anything so he can be at peace in his home... Over handling, over attention is stressful for them... They gain personalities over time and the personalities change like a persons... They aren't cuddly pets unfortunately so for the time being take care of him but leave it at that... At least for a while

 

[ChameleonsInMyHouse]

by the looks of some of your plant leaves, i agree also that it could be too hot, i assumed you bought the plants looking nice, other wise you would have pruned (trimmed) the dead leaves off. ive never had that happen to my plants unless it was too hot. (which is fine for my dessert reptiles)

what is your reading temp in the basking area, and your lower areas?

other than that, your chameleon looks in great shape

 

[ttaylor]

I've filled one out before, I'll find it and see what/if anything needs updated and repost it.

I don't think it's temperature related.

I rarely ever try to handle him except for necessity. In this case, it is my fault that I left the cage open, but I have often done that. He's never had such interest to get out of the cage before.


I'm pretty worried that this is because he was most likely wild caught. Once, we had two baby squirrels show up that must have been orphaned. We raised them and they were relatively tame. They would run all over, go to sleep in a shirt pocket, etc. However, as they got older, all of their instincts manifested and they were no more tame than a squirrel in the park, if that. There is no way we could have kept them beyond that point.

 

[ChameleonsInMyHouse]

again, your senegal looks in great shape. he doesnt look thin or dehydrated. has he continued to eat and drink?

 

[ttaylor]

I believe he has been drinking (I don't always see) but he has a dripper and gets misted regularly. He has recently started defacating in smaller amounts and almost everyday now. Not but a touch of orange/yellow and a good white urate.

I agree with you about the plants.. that only happenes to them RIGHT under the heat lamp, as they grown right up to it. Maybe I should cut them back some, but he likes to get close and fan himself out. It's probably in the upper 90's right under the bulb (like within a few inches) but everywhere else it's cooler with the gradient to room temp (73) at the bottom.

I would say he seems healthy too. I guess my fear is that he's so healthy (physically) now, that he just wants the hell out, and it's going to degrade him mentally, which will eventually affect his physical health as well.


I've read that sometimes with a WC, the reach this point where they either accept what's going on, and live well, or they don't, and it kills them.

 

[Carlton]

It's not looking good.

Today at lunch (I make it home within my hour) I went to feed him a cricket, but he seemed disinterested. Not totally unusual, he only eats when he feels like it.

However, I left the cage door open, and as I was heating food, I noticed he was making his way towards the door. I was curious what would happen. He made it to the edge, climbed onto the screen and out onto the open door. He made it all the way out to the top edge, and I offered him my hand. He sat there, but didn't take the opportunity, as usual. Instead, he started up and along the top of the door, walking back to the top of the cage, past the heat light and up the dripper tube. He got to the tank, got frustrated that he could go no further, and eventually turned back. All this was chameleon times, so at least 10 minutes.

He sort of walked back toward the heat lamp on it's cord, but didn't go too far. I was worried about him burning himself at this point. He didn't seem to be making too much of a decision, and was very brown, and probably getting cold. I offered my hand, which he used only as a way to get off the cord and down onto the top of the cage on the other side.

I was hoping he would eventually make his way back into the cage, realizing it was the best place for him he could find in the vicinity. Sadly, time being of the essence at this point, I got involved again. I went to the other side and offered my hand again, which he backed away from, toward the heat lamp. The more I tried to coax, the closer he got to the lamp, and he moved his face nearly against it. I put my other hand out to keep him from it, at the risk of scareing him, which it did. He took off and flipped himself right off the edge of the cage, and fell flat on his back!

He flipped himself over, and seemed rather stunned, as I could imagine. I put my hand out and helped him as he climbed up the front of the cage and then swiftly into it and up the money tree.

He seems fine from the fall, but he is definitely not fine in general. He promptly ended up in the back of the cage, up the screen, and then hanging under the UVB light. he flipped himself around and started jabbing at the screen with his front foot. I was hesitant to leave at this point, but I really had to. He did stop this before I left, but still seemed rather discontent.


I don't know if the coloration is a sign or coincidence, but he is definitely not happy. I don't know if just a larger cage would help, or if captivity in general will never work out for him.

Part of me still wonders if it's possibly this is a reaction to low or no UVB. Maybe I just want to think it's as easy as a bulb that crapped out

If your ReptiSun is over 6 months old, go ahead and replace it. I doubt his increased dissatisfaction would be due to a lack of UVB. He would most likely be LESS active. This could be hormones, reaching maturity, increased territoriality, and a bit distracted thinking about finding a mate. I agree, maybe too warm which can show up as a light color AND hyperactivity (irritation? Reactivity?). Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Senegals show stress with a black spotted pattern over the green? Wait, I think I'm mixing them up with gracefuls, sorry.

BTW, his condition looks really good! I'm sure he would love a larger space if you can give it to him.

 

[ttaylor]

I'm beginning to think maybe the temps are too much, in light of the suggestions. Maybe it was already borderline too hot, and with the summer its now too hot.

As they get older, are they more sensitive to being too hot? Or rather, do they have slightly different heat requirements?

I have a 75w zoomed heat bulb, but it sits right on top the cage and the plants are fairly close. I will try a lower wattage bulb and see how that goes.

I think I'll just try picking up a linear 5.0 UVB. I didn't know going into this that the CFL bulbs can be problematic.


I do believe black spots is low stress. He flashes them occasionally, but only incidentally for a very short time. The same spots, but brown, come up when he is hunting.

 

[chameleongirl2]

just give him some space, let him be.......

 

[ttaylor]

I understand what you are saying about leaving him be. I understand that it is easy to be from one extreme (not paying enough attention to details) to the other (overly obsessing to the point of harm) when it comes to these guys. I would imagine I'm more towards the latter, in general.

I would just like a little more explanation, if I could have one, though. The recent behavior shift didn't really stem from anything I had done, that I could tell. It isn't like I had started to try and handle him or harass him. However, once he started acting weird, I became more and more concerned. I've probably been paying more attention to him. Is it the thought that this is something he should be able to ride out, but I might be exacerbating it by becoming so concerned over it?


I was just thinking. The only thing that has changed in the past month is I started a new job, and I have been coming home at lunch. I've been trying to make it a regular thing and feeding him then, rather than when I get home, as I now get home even later. Actually, I don't know what merit that holds, because I was unemployed for almost two months before that, so he should have been used to seeing me around more during the day. Ah, those are all just facts of curiosity. I think it's mostly to do with the fact that "it's like he's a teenager!" as my girlfriend observed.


I guess I should be clear: In the description of what happened the other day, his behavior after getting out of the cage and then falling isn't new. He was already agitated.

 

[KarmaChameleon1337]

FINALLY someone who has a Senegal! I always feel so lonely on this forum with rarely anyone having one. My senegal has never really been afraid or angry at me though.

 

[ChameleonsInMyHouse]

ttaylor, forgive us if we havent really seemed to be adimate about properly explaining. as said before, your chameleon looks to be a great condition, if i have missed it, im sorry but please say again. what are your temps? if he is eating and drinking, that is a good thing. but hot temps and heat lamps can NOT only do external burning, but can do internal damage as well.

at this stage, if he is eating and drinking the same, i believe it should be something to ride out. it isnt so much the appearance of somebody that will stress a chameleon out, when their cage door is shut, the outside world doesnt really matter to them. i've been face up to my chams with the door shut and they pay no attention to me. (though this statement cant justify every chameleon)

i do believe a majority of stress comes from handling and contact, but there are times when its nessecary. just do what you have to do. if it worries you so much, than schedual an appointment with a reptile vet and get a blood test done. he may be defficient of vitamins which also play a roll in the color enhancement of the reptile.

 

[ttaylor]

I checked a few inches directly under the light, and it's approx 100F there. Which I am thinking is too much! Of course it will be cooler further away and to any direction to the side, but I'm thinking that is too hot.

Then again, it is 100F outside today.. However, it is 73F in my house.

 

[KarmaChameleon1337]

100F? That's way too much. Pull the light alot higher up!

 

[kinyonga]

I always kept my Senegals' basking area in the mid to high 80's....I think you might be cooking him.
The temperature being too hot as a reason for your chameleon's lighter colors has been mentioned quite a few times now and you have found out that its around 100 degrees....are you going to wait until your chameleon gets sick and dies before you try changing it??

 

[PeriTanz]

I have not read all of the responses so someone else might have said this but by the looks of your plants the light may be too close. They look like they have been burned by light or~ heat intensity.