Why are fatty feeders considered bad?
- Thread starter jamest0o0
- Start date
Lennoncham
Chameleon Enthusiast
You better see how many it takes to sustain your appetite for a day to figure it out.
Kristen Wilkins
Chameleon Enthusiast
This does not have a cal count but might be helpful .
nightanole
Chameleon Enthusiast
It might...
fat is 9 cals per gram, protein is 4 cals.
So if 100g of dubia is 23.4 % protein and 7.2 % fat by weight...
23.4g of protein x 4 cals = 93.6 cals
7.2g of fats x 9 cals = 64.8 cals
so 100g of dubia have 158.4 calories? Thats about as much calories as 100g of chicken breast.
Lennoncham
Chameleon Enthusiast
I guess you got off this time @jamest0o0
hammerhead
Established Member
jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
We eat crabs and shrimp, don't see much difference in roaches lol. Superworms would be like the butter with a little protein.
I read that 3.5 oz of crickets was 300 something calories earlier. If someone wanted to do the math they could for how many calories a single dubia is based off 3-5 crickets being roughly the equivelant to a dubia.
MissSkittles
Chameleon Enthusiast
I really hope I’m not around for that future!
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
I don't know about this.
I love Sandra's data and all, but did any of you read this? 1.4 calories for a Cricket per gram. 9.9 calories needed per day for a 200g cham. Google puts crickets at 121 calories per 100 grams.
An adult cricket weighs about .250 - .400 depending on species That means a 200gram Cham should be eating 1
18-25 crickets per day, that's pretty excessive, don't most cricket peeps feed like 10-15 every other day?
So I guess better example would be 150g Cham. Even then, average male panther weight, we are looking at 15 .400g crickets or 30, every other day. There seems to be something wrong with this data.
Or am I mixed up, and people who feed crickets feed 30 every other day for an adult male vielied/panther.
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nightanole
Chameleon Enthusiast
This is with a medical scale accurate to 10mg:
adult cricket(banded) = .25g
male adult dubia = 1.50g
female adult dubia = 3.00g
adult superworm = .50g
Going by that, if my normal rate is 2 dozen crickets, thats 3 adult male dubia by nutrition content.
My oust (300g ish) ate about 10g dubia per week as an adult. At peak growing it was 2 dozen adult crickets a day.
My female (almost 1 pound) beardy would eat 15g of dubia a week.
Keep in mind i only feed off the adult dubia, so you are only taking 5-10 feeders per week.
I dont do a trail mix of feeders per week. I just rotate, so dubia for a few weeks, then it might be silky season, then on to something else...
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
Good to know, but we are still at the same conclusion. Read the chart, a 300g Cham should be getting 13 calories.
If we use 1.4 calories per gram. We would need almost 10 grams per day, Google said 1.21 for a gram of cricket, so let's split it, now it really is 10g per day.
So you said he ate 10g per week, Sandra is saying he needs that PER Day, and that's is to Maintain his current Weight.
Also there is more than just weight to this equation.
Calories > Weight.
So let's say this.
10 gram Dubia = 16.8 carbs, spliting the diffrence in carb math, we need roughly 13grams of Adult crickets. Or 52 adult Crickets, compared to 6.6 Dubia.
So 1 Adult Dubia is worth about 8 crickets.
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nightanole
Chameleon Enthusiast
Yes that sounds insane. Lets add to the insanity.
6lb(2700g) tegu got to 8lbs(3600g), eating 1lb of meat every 2 weeks, and 15g of dubia per week, and maybe a pint berries every 2 weeks.
Now i will put in some extra effort:
meat is about 1000 calories per pound, 50/50 split of fat/protein by weight
dubia is 160 calories per 100g,
"berries" are 60 calories per cup, 2 cups in a pint
so tegu was eating 2000+96+240= 2336 calories per month. in order to gain 1lb of body weight every 90 days.
And now the tegu police will come after me for not having a 50/50 split of meat vs veg...
so sandra is gunning for 300g of dubia per month, so a 1lb (big honker) cham would be eating almost 500 calories a month...
If you keep going with this logic, an 8lb chameleon would be eating 4000 cals a month, under the sandra spec.
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cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
Alright, I figured this out!
So I think Sandra was right maybe about Calories, but wrong about Period. It's not 13 calories per day, it's per week.
If we use this https://www.world-builders.org/lessons/less/biomes/annutrita.html
It says a reptiles K0.75 rating is 5.6, and x the weight so .300 we get 1.68 calories per day, to maintain weight, that's 11.76 per week, or a little less than Sandra's number, but gives a point of reference. Now let's see if we can find Chams K0.75
Back to 300grams, we know 13, and .300. the Calories would be 1.8 per day, or 6.19 K0.75
At 200 grams we see 9.9, that gives us a K0.75 of 7 so the goalpost has changed, let's keep going.
Now we go 150grams and we get 7.7 k0.75, I don't think it works that way lol, but maybe.
So this just leads to more questions haha. What is Chams K0.75 that's what we need to know.
So I think Sandra was right maybe about Calories, but wrong about Period. It's not 13 calories per day, it's per week.
If we use this https://www.world-builders.org/lessons/less/biomes/annutrita.html
It says a reptiles K0.75 rating is 5.6, and x the weight so .300 we get 1.68 calories per day, to maintain weight, that's 11.76 per week, or a little less than Sandra's number, but gives a point of reference. Now let's see if we can find Chams K0.75
Back to 300grams, we know 13, and .300. the Calories would be 1.8 per day, or 6.19 K0.75
At 200 grams we see 9.9, that gives us a K0.75 of 7 so the goalpost has changed, let's keep going.
Now we go 150grams and we get 7.7 k0.75, I don't think it works that way lol, but maybe.
So this just leads to more questions haha. What is Chams K0.75 that's what we need to know.
nightanole
Chameleon Enthusiast
Well we have astablished that they are about the same cals per pound as chicken. about 160 cals per 100g. So just weigh a 1/2-3/4 dubia.
I weighted some 2 that where between 1/2 and 5/8 were .22g each.
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
Well Dubia nymphs nutrition is different from adults.
I have seen a few graphs with Dubia Nymphs on it, their Fat content shoots way up if I remember right almost double.
Edit: @nightanole read above, I will look for the Chart. However Dubia Adult =/= Dubia Nymphs at all.
On another note. Looking for that graph, as I sit here with a Big Gulp, drinking empty calories. I think I found the answer James.
The answer is "Fat Feeders" are akin to Soda, or Junk Food. The answer is correct, the question was wrong. The real question is which feeders are Fat Feeders, does Fat Content make them Fatty feeders?
The answer is no, to the later, and Butterworms, Waxworms, to the Former.
The Butterworms and waxworms have large amounts of Fat, Low amounts of Protein, low amounts of C/P, and a low Amount of Ash. They have very little nutritional value, just a bunch of Fat. IE, like a Soda, they are Empty calories.
Ok am I thinking about this correctly? 100/.22= 454 dubias... 454/160=2.84 calories per dubia?
cyberlocc
Chameleon Enthusiast
No it would be, 168/100 = 1.68 calories per gram of Dubia. 1.68x.22 = .3696 calories per Dubia.
But again, that 168 doesn't apply to Nymphs I don't think, it may be similar calorie wise, but a different make up to get there. We have to see.
Your way works too. But it should have been
100/.22 = 454 then 160/454 = .3524 (you used 160, I used 168, that's why the .1 difference)
Oops just realized he had Dubias at 158 not 168 my bad
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