Why are the babies dying from this clutch?!?! PLEASE HELP

[MusicCityExotics]

I posted a previous thread about my eggs starting to act weird. They are panther cham eggs. She laid them on the 11th of November. They are in a LLL incubator. I have humidity and temp gauges inside. They are in hatchrite. No issues with electrical outages, or anything abnormal during incubation.

Well, recently four eggs started to sweat and shrink then stopped. They started back up again then stopped. This has been going on for a couple of weeks now. Well, they were starting to get very yellow, and I was certain four of them were gone. So I cut them open. Inside each was a fully developed baby, that even absorbed the yolk (mostly). I am so confused as to what is going on with this clutch. She laid 32, and the others are still white, but do have a tiny snowflake (on the surface of the eggs) all over them. No mold at all.

Please advise!!!!!!! I don't want to have the entire clutch die on me.

 

[eriksorg]

Maybe your hatchrite is to wet or dry???!!! And what is your incubation temps???...humidity??? Sorry for the ton of questions, but it helps!!!

 

[MusicCityExotics]

No problem. From my understanding, hatchrite is designed to not have water added directly to it. I do put water at the bottom tray of the incubator though. Humidity sits between 80 and 85%. I started incubation at lower temps to break the diapause. I slowly increased it. It is now at 77 degrees and has been for 6 months now.

 

[pantherlover]

Could be a weak clutch...
First though was that something got them hatching pre maturely but your bumping up to 9 months and as you mentioned, the eggs you cut open, you observed that most of the yolk sac was absorbed.
Candling eggs can trigger them to hatch pre maturely.
Ive recently just hatched out my first panther clutch. My hatch rate was only about 60%. The thing that differs from my clutch is that the first chams pushed out without a problem. The eggs that started to sweat later ended up doing the same thing as your first four.
Did any eggs dent in or pucker?

 

[eriksorg]

Hatchrite will dry out....take a big fat pinch of it ....squeeze...do you feel any moisture??? If so ,then good!!!

 

[MusicCityExotics]

Nope, not a single dent or pucker throughout the entire incubation process. Even the ones that did sweat, then shrank stayed nice and white...then repeated the process like a week and a half later. Then went super small and yellow.

As of about an hour ago, two more now have two tiny beads of water on them. They are currently white.

If it is a weak clutch should I open up the white healthy looking ones to give them a shot or just let them go? I have NEVER seen this with any clutch before.

Hatchrite doesn't feel dry. It feels exactly like it did when I first opened the bag.

 

[eriksorg]

In my experience, don't mess with them...the strongest ones will hatch on their own...

 

[MusicCityExotics]

ok thanks. So is there anything that I should be doing differently?

 

[pantherlover]

Nah man. If you cut them open and they happen to survive and be sold, it wouldnt be fair to the buyer because they wont live long.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Nah man. If you cut them open and they happen to survive and be sold, it wouldnt be fair to the buyer because they wont live long.

Why would that make them have shorter lifespans?

 

[pantherlover]

Because they wherent strong enough to push out of the egg on their own and would have never hatched otherwise...
To my knowledge, some chams, even in the hands of the most experienced keeper, will only live maybe 2 years if they are from a weak clutch or not strong enough to push themselves out of the egg. If it does survive, I would sell it at a discount price at the very least. jmo

 

[Todnedo]

Because they wherent strong enough to push out of the egg on their own and would have never hatched otherwise...
To my knowledge, some chams, even in the hands of the most experienced keeper, will only live maybe 2 years if they are from a weak clutch or not strong enough to push themselves out of the egg. If it does survive, I would sell it at a discount price at the very least. jmo

Thats not always the case.

 

[robmd1]

Im glad steve spoke up cause i was goin say same thing

 

[pantherlover]

Fair enough guys... Do you believe in cutting open eggs?

 

[canzoman]

I was having same issue with hatch rite. I switched to vermic and instantly eggs that looked ok hatched about 3 weeks later.

 

[Todnedo]

Fair enough guys... Do you believe in cutting open eggs?

Do you admit what you said was pure BS and the post was made out of speculation?

 

[MusicCityExotics]

I am not even thinking about dollar signs here guys. This clutch is very special to me, and ALL I care about is the health of these animals. If I can nurse them to health, or do ANYTHING to give them a shot safely, than I am all for it. I hate thinking that these guys (fully developed babies) will just slowly die inside the eggs. I have never cut a clutch before, and wouldn't do so unless it was a last resort.

With that said, that is why I am looking for advice from someone who have more experience on this topic than I do.

If leaving them alone, and letting the strongest try to hatch then that is what I will do. If these four deaths are indicators that something isn't right and they are having trouble breaking free, then I am prepared to intervene.

Obviously, I don't want to go through the trauma of breaking them open, pouring everything I have into nursing them around the clock only to have them die anyway. Anyone who suggests I would do that for a quick buck clearly doesn't know me at all.

At this point, I just want to know what is best for the BABIES!

 

[pantherlover]

No Im not speculating. I was sharing advice that was given to me by someone much more experienced than myself. I dont just say random stuff. I wouldnt doubt that your experience exceeds the experience of my tutor. If I steered this person in the wrong direction, I sincerely apologize. SO... As I am a student of chameleon husbandry and have been for much longer than my joining date indicates, Do you believe in cutting eggs open? What is the survival rate like in your experience? Does it have anything to do with how many generations the bloodline has been captive bred?

 

[pantherlover]

Sorry musiccityexotics... Ive read a lot of Todnedos posts and Im sure you could get some good advice on this thread from a couple of the participants.

 

[Todnedo]

I was having same issue with hatch rite. I switched to vermic and instantly eggs that looked ok hatched about 3 weeks later.

Did your eggs have the snow flake looking marks on them too?