Why are things taking a turn for the worse for my little guy?

[zsazsa85]

Hi everyone,

Something is wrong with my little boy.
Chameleon Info:
My Chameleon - I have a (probably) male about 5 months old veiled chameleon. He is been with us for 4 months now.
Handling - About 3 times a week.
Feeding - I feed him small-medium size crickets, about 16 pcs a day, waxworms, mealworms, now started butterworms and silkworms. They eat as dry food oatmeal+coconut+dry spices and apple,carrot,celery, blueberry, whatever vegetable I have+ drink yellow Flukers gel with calcium.
Supplements - Zoo Med Repti Calcium every day,everything he eats is dusted with it. I use Zoo Med's Reptivite with D3 and Repti Calcium with D3 in every two weeks.
Watering – Mist King 6x2,5min+ 1x1,30min misting every day (the air is very dry here)
Fecal Description - He had recently been tested for parasites. Has a little bit more pinworms,so he got Panacur . Will have to be given in two weeks again. He pooped every two days; it is moist, has a white urine part with little yellow part and a dark brown solid part.
History - He had RI not long ago.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen cage, 2'x2'x4'. Two sides are enclosed.(The back will be closed as soon as the background arrives,hopefully it can keep the humidity higher.)
Lighting - UVB: Exo Terra 10.0. Heat lamp is Exo Terra sun glo 75 Watts. Plus I sometimes use red infra lamp for extra heat.
Temperature - Exo Terra thermometer. At night 19 Celsius, during the day about 30 at the basking spot and around 23 ambient.
Humidity - Exo Terra hygrometer. 30-65 %. Mist King.
Plants - 3 live plant, 1Ficus, 1 Ficus tree and 1 Photos. Flukers climbing branches.
Placement - In our bedroom,it is not near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas. The bottom of the cage is 36'' from the floor.
Location - Whitehorse, YT, Canada

So he had RI for which he was given Baytril for pretty long time,40 days. The vet(which is not reptile vet)wanted me to give him longer but I stopped. It seems too long already. I stopped giving him about 10 days ago. Last week on Thursday I got him silkworms,butterworms and cricks from Ontario. He liked them, but since Sunday he seems lethargic. He is on the top or in the middle of the enclosure so not that inactive but I can see he is not himself.
He had always good appetite even while he was sick, now he eats half amount of crickets and doesn't wanted to eat any worm today.
His right eye just since this weekend looks like it's covered in a clear film that is like a dried tear. It looks like he can see through it because he follows movement with that eye as well. I tried washing around his eye very carefully with Q-tip and distilled water. Washing doesn't seem to do anything right then and there but every day I come home both of his eyes are clear the film has disappeared.
I gave him orally the Panacur on Friday and I hadn't found any poop since. I will check the plants again though.
His last shed was on the 3rd of February. He should've already...

I don't know what happened! I was so happy for the new feeders and now they die one by one but not because of him. I try to do everything I read a lot, I'm on the forum every day. I don't want to loose him..
Is it from the Baytril? I read here on the forum it can cause depression afterwords. Or are the new feeders?
Please somebody give me some advice!I know the are masters of hiding problems.I am desperate!

 

[xraygirl]

Hi everyone,

Something is wrong with my little boy.
Chameleon Info:
My Chameleon - I have a (probably) male about 5 months old veiled chameleon. He is been with us for 4 months now.
Handling - About 3 times a week.
Feeding - I feed him small-medium size crickets, about 16 pcs a day, waxworms, mealworms, now started butterworms and silkworms. They eat as dry food oatmeal+coconut+dry spices and apple,carrot,celery, blueberry, whatever vegetable I have+ drink yellow Flukers gel with calcium.
Supplements - Zoo Med Repti Calcium every day,everything he eats is dusted with it+ I use Zoo Med's Reptivite with D3 and Repti Calcium with D3 in every two weeks.
Watering – Mist King 6x2,5min+ 1x1,30min misting every day (the air is very dry here)
Fecal Description - He had recently been tested for parasites. Has a little bit more pinworms,so he got Panacur . Will have to be given in two weeks again. He pooped every two days; it is moist, has a white urine part with little yellow part and a dark brown solid part.
History - He had RI not long ago.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen cage, 2'x2'x4'. Two sides are enclosed.(The back will be closed as soon as the background arrives,hopefully it can keep the humidity higher.)
Lighting - UVB: Exo Terra 10.0. Heat lamp is Exo Terra sun glo 75 Watts. Plus I sometimes use red infra lamp for extra heat.
Temperature - Exo Terra thermometer. At night 19 Celsius, during the day about 30 at the basking spot and around 23 ambient.
Humidity - Exo Terra hygrometer. 30-65 %. Mist King.
Plants - 3 live plant, 2 Ficus and 1 Photos. Flukers climbing branches.
Placement - In our bedroom,it is not near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas. The bottom of the cage is 36'' from the floor.
Location - Whitehorse, YT, Canada

So he had RI for which he was given Baytril for pretty long time,40 days. The vet(which is not reptile vet)wanted me to give him longer but I stopped. It seems too long already. I stopped giving him about 10 days ago. Last week on Thursday I got him silkworms,butterworms and cricks from Ontario. He liked them, but since Sunday he seems lethargic. He is on the top or in the middle of the enclosure so not that inactive but I can see he is not himself.
He had always good appetite even while he was sick, now he eats half amount of crickets and doesn't wanted to eat any worm today.
His right eye just since this weekend looks like it's covered in a clear film that is like a dried tear. It looks like he can see through it because he follows movement with that eye as well. I tried washing around his eye very carefully with Q-tip and distilled water. Washing doesn't seem to do anything right then and there but every day I come home both of his eyes are clear the film has disappeared.
I gave him orally the Panacur on Friday and I hadn't found any poop since. I will check the plants again though.
His last shed was on the 3rd of February. He should've already...

I don't know what happened! I was so happy for the new feeders and now they die one by one but not because of him.
Is it from the Baytril? I read here on the forum it can cause depression afterwords. Or are the new feeders?
Please somebody give me some advice!I know the are masters of hiding problems.I am desperate!

Sorry that your little guy isn't feeling good. Hopefully he will feel better I've read a lot that panacur takes a lot out of them, but I've never seen it for myself so someone with experience can guide you on that. First thing that sticks out is the D3, he should only get it twice a month. I made the same mistake by giving my guy calcium with D3 and a multivitamin that had D3 in it (which I caught about two months later). Give him the D3 twice a month. He doesn't need it in both supplements.
Most folks use the 5.0 reptisun or 6% Arcadia UVB tube bulbs. I'm not sure which kind you are using, but folks have 'reported' eye problems with coil UVB bulbs. I say 'reported' because supposedly the issue has been resolved with those bulbs, but most folks still use the tube bulbs instead.
I would ditch the flukers gel stuff. It has calcium in it, and your already providing calcium to him in a powdered form. Some folks use the water gel crystals that you just add water to, and some folks just give their feeders fruits and veggies to get their hydration from.
I would do the shower method for him for starts, aim a shower head at the wall so water bounces off, and place him on a plant on the bottom. Makes sure the waters warm. Give him a nice spa session for 20 or so minutes? My guy loves his spa days
Your not running any bulbs at night are you?
Are you cup feeding his food?
If he doesn't continue to eat maybe make him a feeder slushie? Blend some feeders and give it to him by mouth?

I'm sure the experienced folks will drop by and give you some great/better advice than me, I'm sure I didn't touch everything. Especially on the whole RI issue and panacur side effects.

 

[symphonica]

I am slightly confused by what the main problem is. The feeders are the ones that keep dying, correct? And that has nothing to do with the cham. And the eye issue resolved itself? And he shed a month ago? Sorry, I think I missed your point of concern and reason for your question. Is it that he's lacking an appetite and isn't pooping?

X-Ray did touch upon the basics of husbandry.

Plain calcium with No D3 or phosphorus daily. D3 twice a month, multivites twice a month. Too much D3 will cause more harm than good, and can make them very sick.

For UVB, T5HO tube bulbs are the best. T8 tubes next, followed by the coiled bulbs. ReptiSun is better than ReptiGlo. 5.0 is all you need, unless you have a super big enclosure. It's been said that too much UVB can cause burns, boils, and blindness, but I've personally never experienced it. I use 10.0 for my free range set-up (mine are free-ranged 24/7).

Some other points that are often overlooked:
No lights at night.
No mistings at night. No mistings at least one hour before bed. Cage should be completely dry before bed.

Some just don't take illnesses and medications well. They just become very stressed and it drains a lot out of them. Just like with humans. Antibiotics always makes some people feel nauseous and give them yeast infections. Other people are completely unaffected by it.

You could always call your vet back for a consult, although she'll probably just tell you to come back in, and may not be of much help if she's not a herp vet.

 

[zsazsa85]

Thank you for the quick respond!

-I use Reptisun.
-Sorry about the supplements,it was my bad: I use the multi and calcium with D3 once every two weeks. I use simple calcium without D3 every day.
-No light and misting at nighttime and the last misting before the lights turn off is an hour before.
-My concern is his lack of appetite and isn't pooping, his eye and being lethargic. And he was so good while he was on Baytril. Drank and ate like nothing would have happened. And now, when he should be ok, now he looks worse...
- Oh and I cup feed him
I will definitely give him a shower today. He always fights at the beginning and then just gives up and sometimes closes his eyes too

 

[mowryrd]

I've heard a lot of people say those red lights are bad even during the day. Most people just use household bulbs for extra heat or if you don't want more light use a ceramic heat emitter. It should screw right in to the socket you are using for you inferred light. I know this doesn't help your main concerns but just thought I would pass it on

 

[zsazsa85]

Thank you! I will use just normal lights then. So this morning his right eye was weird again but after I washed it it seemed ok. Why doesn't he shed? Is the humidity that low? Why doesn't he eat as much? Should I feed him every other day now?

 

[mowryrd]

How long has it been since he ate? Mine goes almost a week with out eating sometimes and then back to normal. It does suck spending lots of money on feeders just to watch them die. I find if you don't show your chameleon any food for a few days sometime it will peek their appetite. Or offer food in a way that is different from your normal method if you cup feed try just throwing them in the cage and let him hunt. A trick that works for me is let him free range and put the feeder on a towel and hold it up so the bug is climbing the towel (and chameleon can see it) or hold a cricket by A back leg and let it Crawl along a brench in front of your chameleon then drag it back and let it crawl forward again. I think they just get board sometimes. Hope things turn around for you soon

 

[mowryrd]

Sorry forgot how young he was he should still have a strong appetite at that age but try the different feeding methods

 

[zsazsa85]

Thank you! But free hunting the problem is, that he probably injured his tongue at the very beginning so it doesn't work properly. But I might give a try and skip a day feeding.

 

[zsazsa85]

So "G" was great yesterday: pooped (with nice urine), was sooo active like he is usually and ate 10-12 crickets I gave him plus a butterw.
I'm curious about his eye how it will look like today though.
And looking forward to see him shedding....I hope he will soon!

 

[ChameleonLady]

Great news