Why bother with big cages?

[jodeoh60]

I've got a colony of Jacksons--- an adult male, two adult females, and 9 babies 3 months old, with the male, females and babies all in their own large screen cages 2ftx2ftx4ft, three total. Each cage is thickly supplied with vines and sticks for climbing, incandescent light and fluorescent UV.

Whether in the house with the lights on or outside in the sun, the animals almost always go as high up as is possible, sitting at the screen ceiling. They rarely venture to the lower levels, if only to hunt the free-range crickets. On occasion the adult male will sleep half way down.

My question is why bother with large cages if the animals ignore the open space and just go UP? If I had a 12ft cage it seems they'd just go to the top. Maybe I should raise poison dart frogs on the floor of the cages??

 

[Zen Reptiles]

I have some that are sedentary and some that are constantly on the move. I notice my females are much lazier than my males, however my laziest cham is a male...honestly I have kept some in 1'x2'x1.5' cages for extended periods of time (when babies have grown up, never sold, and I didn't have bigger cages.)...and they did just as well if not better than the rest.

I dunno? Depends on the individual. I also notice that feeding is a problem with bigger cages. None of my guys go actively hunting unless they've gone a while without food. I literally have to place food within tongue's-reach for them to go for it. Otherwise they will ignore food crawling around lower in the cage, it will die and make more to clean up. This was never a problem when I used the smaller cages, everything was always eaten.

Visually, I prefer bigger cages and I am 90% finished an 8-compartment caging unit that will be 2.5'x3'x4' for each individual.........however if I didn't have that kind of space, I think they'd be fine in the smaller cages.

 

[Solid Snake]

The larger the space, the easier it is to work with.

For example, setting up a proper temp gradient in a 1x1x2 cage, is going to be harder to accomplish than in a 3x3x5 cage.

A proper temperature gradient is important.

Also, the animals benefit psychologically from a larger area.

JMO

 

[reptilover]

The larger the space, the easier it is to work with.

For example, setting up a proper temp gradient in a 1x1x2 cage, is going to be harder to accomplish than in a 3x3x5 cage.

A proper temperature gradient is important.

Also, the animals benefit psychologically from a larger area.

JMO

Took the words right from the tips of my fingers!

 

[Yoshi and Daredevil]

I'm a newbie to chameleons but I have a terrarium that I keep my chameleons in, I have vines stuck to both sides of the cage reaching all the way from the top to the bottom. I also have round vines running between the two side vines. Its basically set up so they can see to the bottom. As soon as I put food in the cage they go crazy. The humidity is very easy to control, even thought they like sitting at the top most of the time they have days were they move around the cage too. They especially love zigging and zagging in and out of the vines. They have plenty of space for the both of them in a 1.5'x1.5'x2. I think the main idea of it is to give them places and things to climb on but not to clutter up the cage with things to where they can't see the bottom. I hope this helped, I kind of rambled on haha Hopefully this was more helpful than a waste of time.

 

[jodeoh60]

The larger the space, the easier it is to work with.

For example, setting up a proper temp gradient in a 1x1x2 cage, is going to be harder to accomplish than in a 3x3x5 cage.

A proper temperature gradient is important.

Also, the animals benefit psychologically from a larger area.

JMO

Okay, what does that mean "psychologically benefit" from a larger cage, if all they do is cram up top?

 

[jodeoh60]

I freerange the crickets in the cage, and they just go UP too, toward the lights, so the chams just sit and wait. I've considered putting the bugs in a tub on the floor to make the lizards go down for exercise. The huge cages just seem like a waste.......................

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Okay, what does that mean "psychologically benefit" from a larger cage, if all they do is cram up top?

The benefit seems to be the chams dont constantly climb the screen and rub along the sides of the cage when you use the larger sized cages. If you keep a cham in too small of a cage they tend to rub their snouts or rostrals on the screen and that can cause infections. Not really psychological, but it is beneficial to allow room for excercise.

 

[ChameleonFan1989]

My panther is in a 5 foot, by 2 foot by 2 foot cage and personally I wouldn't go any bigger than that because for me I see no need for it, my panther doesn't tend to move much unless I'm watering or offering food. Only time I'd make a gigantic cage was if I was keep a parsons or melleri chameleon.

I know some make really big and I mean big cages just for one panther, I mean is it really needed to have a cage as big as two outdoor sheds? Isn't it more frustrating to maintain with the heat and humidity?

 

[carol5208]

I'm a newbie to chameleons but I have a terrarium that I keep my chameleons in, I have vines stuck to both sides of the cage reaching all the way from the top to the bottom. I also have round vines running between the two side vines. Its basically set up so they can see to the bottom. As soon as I put food in the cage they go crazy. The humidity is very easy to control, even thought they like sitting at the top most of the time they have days were they move around the cage too. They especially love zigging and zagging in and out of the vines. They have plenty of space for the both of them in a 1.5'x1.5'x2. I think the main idea of it is to give them places and things to climb on but not to clutter up the cage with things to where they can't see the bottom. I hope this helped, I kind of rambled on haha Hopefully this was more helpful than a waste of time.

you really should not be housing your chameleons together. Not a healthy environment. Also if you are free ranging feeders, remove the substrate. It is an accident waiting to happen....

 

[Olimpia]

Well they ARE arboreal. It means they like height, so I can see it being uncomfortable for an adult chameleon to be only a foot or so from the floor at the highest point of the cage, it's practically like being on the ground for them.

All of mine are avid explorers. They may not do it all day, every day, but they do move around quite a bit. It's good exercise for them to wander around looking for food and it counts as enrichment. I even have my young Carpets in 2x2x4' cages, and even if it is a lot of space for them I don't regret giving them more than others would. And they are always moving around.

To the OP, do you think perhaps your chameleons are a little cold and that's why they don't move away from the basking light? Or your UV light is perhaps getting a little weak? Because mine wander, even my Jackson's was an avid wanderer - He would bask a couple hours in the morning and be on the move the rest of the day, up and down.

 

[d3s5]

My cham is free ranged and also is an avid explorer. He pretty much uses the entire downstairs. When he goes in his outside cage (3x3x6), he is fine for about 30 minutes and then starts scratching at the door. I let him out and he explores the neighbors' yards for as long as I will let him - usually about 1 1/2 hours. I couldn't imagine, with his personality, being caged. I think he would get very bored.

 

[kokom05lb]

My girl Angel is wanderer. I have my cage in the works being 2x3x4 for both my male and female. I have yet seen them in one place all day long! My girl though prefers to be out of her cage and I've bee thinking about freeranging her. Problem is I have a 3yr son and he constantly wants to be in the reptile room with them.
Bigger is better! Even if they arent wanderers.

 

[Seeco]

I wondered this a long time ago and made some drastic changes:

These were vertical cages. I turned them horizontal and suspended them 7 ft off the ground. When they were inside the heat lamp was all the way on one side and the other side was cooler.

You could do this too on a shelf in your house.

That said there ARE good reasons to have a big and vertical cage:

Really the main reason is that heat goes up.

Like said earlier a bigger cage creates a better temp gradient. If you house gets hot 3 ft vertical will make a big difference temp wise, top vs bottom of cage.

If that cage was on a shelf or hanging from the ceiling in your house and it got hot or smoky or you used some cleaning chemicals your cham would have nowhere to go.

If it was vertical and big the cham could go to the bottom until things cooled down.

TO SUMMARIZE -- if you are a master at chameleon caging you should go ahead and use a smaller cage or just turn your horizontal but the traditional method is more mistake proof.

 

[Sherlinwed]

maybe your chams aren't active, but Thor is. my cage is 6'x3'x3 and he uses all of it. Its like a fun house for him. I definitely think its good physiologically bc they don't feel restrictedfT

 

[Solid Snake]

Seeco, thats a lot of foliage. Do you have to hang from the roof to access the enclosures?

 

[DanSB]

I agree with Olimpia about them being most comfortable with space below them.

I really do think that regardless of if the space is used or not a chameleon would be most comfortable with the ground further beneath them. I bought a house with 12 foot ceilings, I'm only just over 6' tall and shouldn't need more than a 6.5' tall ceiling, I mean I don't actually use the space...

Other than psychological reasons which we just can't quantify and temperature gradients which could be achieved with a short long cage I would think that being as far away from all the bacteria and other lovely things that will accumulate at the bottom of the cleanest enclosure can't be a bad thing.

I would think a set up like Seeco's would have all the advantages though. It is high enough, the bottom will let waste pass right through and temperature gradients are easy to achieve.

 

[Sticktongue]

Olympia and Seeco are correct. I have nothing to say other than exactly what thy said

 

[DekuScrub]

i agree with solid and the other members that mention temperature gradient.

i mean i see this as less important with, as was mentioned, sedentary animals.

but when you see your chameleons choosing a spot every night about a ft and half from the floor. its obviously a more comfortable spot. either becuase its cooler (i get a nice temp gradient in my basement very cool by the floor) or becuase that spot just suits them better. maybe the location makes them feel less threatened by marauding predators in the canopy or its just coincidence that the most comfy branch is down there.

with that said 2x2x4 (or 3) is necessary until you can feel you chameleon out. ive kept chams in 2x2x2 cubes with no issues. but that wasnt until i felt they could easily cope with the restriction. some personalities require larger enclosures. in fact ive had a couple panthers (one of which was WC) and one veiled that seemed like they needed larger cages than the standard 2x2x4 i built a 4x4x6 for the veiled and guess what...he spent allllllllllll of his time in the one quarter of the whole cage. becuase the lighting and misting was focused there.

as long as you can provide the necessities and provide regular enrichment smaller cages should be fine. it was easy for me to use smaller than standard cages becuse i always had materials on hand INCASE something went awry with the limited enclosure.

id say test the waters.

you also have what in what cages? jodeoh? you have one male. 2 females and 9 babies. so thats 1 male in one cage, 2 females in one cage, and the babies in the last? sounds fine for now, id just be concerned about the females getting territorial once theyre gravid, though my jacksons experience is more limited than yours and from what experience i have they are very mild mannered.

just as long as the male isnt with the females and the babies arent with the parents. sounds kosher as long as youre prepared to rehouse should issues occur.

i can hook you up with a 2x2x4 cage when i get that baby(s) off of you (still dont know what is or isnt called for). ill see what i have on hand but i should have plenty of parts around. you just may need to get self-tapping screws. they will be used condition (ill probably give you the least good looking one honestly) but i can guarantee it will do the trick.

 

[ataraxia]

I must be around the most abnormal chameleons on the face of this planet. Mine use almost every square inch of the cage daily. The only ones i dont see utilizing the cage to the fullest are panther females or sick animals.

IMO if your chameleon is not roaming at some point daily something is not right. Cold temps, cage placement, not enough limbs, vines, foliage, (basic stimulation), pressure from another animal, new to the surroundings, health issues and this list can keep going. When they stay in one spot or only move a couple times a day. I immediately look for problems and keep an eye on them.