Why do chams eat soil ??

[chambabysitter1]

I would like to reiterate what I said earlier in this thread.

While I respect that other chamleoen forums in other languages exist, the fact of the matter is, the number of people who visit them is probably a smaller concentration of users.

Simply assuming that no cases exist because the results were pulled from a very small source number of people can be quite the fallacy.

It can also be somewhat safe to assume, that because of the larger concentration of users and posts here, that more cases of any kind of strange behavior are going to be witnessed.

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

While we can't gather concrete info from such a comparison, a fair representation can be presented. Also its not member but number of chameleons

IE: if we have 10,000 (as a forum) chameleons, and of those 500 have been witnessed to eat soil. thats 1 out of 20.

If the other forum has 100 chameleons, than 5(+,-) should have been reported. not only 1.


Jim since you most likely have the most long term chameleons here....rough % of chams that consume soil?

also another thought, any info on females VS males on this. If it was a mineral need, one would think you would see more soil consumption with preg females since their own supply is being depleted and they are likely to have access to soil at some point

 

[Chameleon Company]

This is getting looney ...

.... sounds like you think its possible at one time something drove them to harbor instincts to consume soil, the NEED is most likely long since gone but the instincts remain?

Sorry, but I see no evidence in this thread, by me or anyone else, to suggest that chameleons are playing out some residual ancestral habit, the need for which long-since evolutionized itself away. Judging by the massive current observations of such, I would say its a current behavior. I see too much juxtaposition here of addressing a "need" being considered the same as addressing a "shortcoming". If you automatically classify something as the latter, you then may be making changes to the detriment of the animal.

Secondly, all this speculation about chams burying near roots is getting just a but far-fetched as well. Roots do not distribute water back into the ground. They take it out. We have no evidence that the egg shells absorb vitamins and minerals. Chameleon eggs have been successfully hatched in a variety of inert and sterile mediums, which would suggest that medium full of vitamins and minerals is not vital, much less would serve any purpose otherwise. As for moisture, unless in a depression, all dirt does a pretty good job of wicking away moisture, with or without a tree nearby. I have seen chameleons, in very large cages, lay within a foot or less of a trunk, and sometimes 3 or more feet away. However, let us assume that they favor being near a tree. Hmmmmmm .... could it be that it provides better for neonate chameleons emerging from the soil to quickly climb into cover ? Could it be that the soil under a shade is better temperature and moisture (by reduced evaporation) stabilized than out in the bare naked open ?

Two opinions do not a consensus make ..... or maybe they do here

Some of this math is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too fuzzy.

Now, I must hit the "unsubscribe" button on this one. Some of you will understand ... outta here

 

[SliK JiM]

Sorry, joined this conversation very late, but I've spoken to many cham owners in the UK whose chams eat 'soil', mine does if he can get to it (occasionally anyway). I say soil, because it's not dirt! Its soil that obviously has nutrients in it for plant growth, and therefore nutrients the cham might determine it needs. They won't go and eat dust and other **** as it's not nutritious! Also, I say eat, but its not like they go and gobble loads down, just a little bit every now and then!

For Tom Calvier, what substrate do you use? Is it a substrate for growth of plants, or is it a reptile safe substrate? I doubt there'll be anything particularly nutritious in a reptile safe substrate as its reptile safe!

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

it wasnt even 6:00am here when i read your post jim. just wanted to clarify.

thanks for the info.

For those that wish to continue discussing the possible reasons ( and since we have no proof either way, it will all be speculation )

i still think presentation has something to do with it. Sometimes gravid females with no place to lay will not lay and become egg bound.

They have the urge to lay, but dont recognize a proper location.

Chams in the US and elsewhere might just have the same urge, but dont recognize a proper source in substrate vs medium?


Roots and their role aside.... depending on the composition of the soil, organic mater, and minerals will most certainly affect properties of soil. most importantly oxygen levels, and ability to retain moisture. Which i would imagine is of importance to an egg.

 

[Tom Carlier]

For Tom Carlier, what substrate do you use? Is it a substrate for growth of plants, or is it a reptile safe substrate? I doubt there'll be anything particularly nutritious in a reptile safe substrate as its reptile safe!

It's ZOOMED's eco earth cocopeat, I come across it very often in other people's terrariums, it's often used for spiders, scorpions,... and it can be used for reptiles such as chameleons as well.

Coco Peat (cocopeat), also known as coir pith or coir dust, is a byproduct of extracting fibres from the husk of a coconut. [...] The coir dust is washed, heat treated, screened and graded before being processed into various Cocopeat products for Horticultural and Agricultural Applications and Industrial AbsorbentThe compressed cocopeat is converted into fluffy cocopeat by the addition of water. A single kilogram of cocopeat will expand to 15 litres of moist cocopeat.In horticulture, cocopeat is recommended as substitute for peat because it is free of bacteria and fungal spores, and is sustainably produced without the environmental damage caused by peat mining.

@ reyesjoshuacruz

you speak of 1 in 20 chameleons that does it,
that means that on average, if I had 20 chameleons, only 1 would do it.
IF I SAW one of those chams do it, I would remove the soil of that one cham,
but I wouldn't make it a rule for all of my chams.

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

oh no no no no no. please dont make the mistake of thinking i was trying to provide facts or figures...

all i was doing was showing how just because the number of chams on this forum VS other forums is higher, they can still be compared. those figures were just for example

 

[Chameleon Company]

I did unsubscribe



And hurray !! European chameleons that eat dirt .... or is it just British chameleons

Here's some logic thought. Europeans, and us Colonials, almost to a fault, dust with supplements. Why ?

LMG, but I think most of us assume, or already know from personal experience, that if we do not add calcium and other supplements via the very unnatural process of dusting insects, we may have health issues in our chameleons due to deficiencies of these vitamins and minerals. But Mother Nature does not dust ? She manages to get it done via other mechanisms, "natural" mechanisms, as she is the Grand Poobah herself
This is not to debate those who have chosen husbandry techniques that avoid dirt, and perhaps are almost sterile. That's a choice to make. In many cases, I would agree that it is the correct choice, primarily a "lesser of two evils" choice, where the dirt or substrate cannot be adequately managed. It does introduce risk in captive husbandry that is not as likely in the wild. However, I do think that to see it as unnatural, or indicative of a shortcoming, is not supported by the body of evidence. I think it is a natural behavior.

Back to "unsubscribe".

 

[Tom Carlier]

oh no no no no no. please dont make the mistake of thinking i was trying to provide facts or figures...

all i was doing was showing how just because the number of chams on this forum VS other forums is higher, they can still be compared. those figures were just for example

Sorry.



anyways, we might have a much smaller forum,
but almost everyone uses substrate and very few of them eat substrate.

You have a big forum, but only a handfull have used substrate and seen them eat it.
If everyone were to use it and see for themselves, you might come to a correct figure.


But numbers don't really matter. If you don't want to use it, you don't have to and it works as well.
And if I saw a cham eat it I would remove it from his cage, and his cage only.

 

[mystarheli]

Mine eats dirt almost daily

 

[SliK JiM]

It's ZOOMED's eco earth cocopeat, I come across it very often in other people's terrariums, it's often used for spiders, scorpions,... and it can be used for reptiles such as chameleons as well.

Yeah, I know the stuff and a lot of people swear by it over here too! I've never heard of a cham eat any kind of substrate, other than natural soil/peat! I think a cham will only eat soil if it offers them something beneficial! As I actively try and grow plants in my enclosure, I use peat, so I guess it is more nutritious than that sort of substrate, which is why my cham would try and eat it! I cover all my plant pots so he can't get to it, but before I thought he would eat it, I saw him take a little bit every now and then!

Personally, I don't want my cham eating soil as I don't like the idea of there being something in it that he could eat (parasites etc) or he could get impaction - although, I've never come across it! I think specialised substrates are considerably safer, but I'd never use them as you have to clean them regularly to stop anything bad growing in them (bacteria, fungi, etc) and that can take a considerable amount of time which I don't want to spend doing!

So yeah, chams do eat soil, but you should try and stop them just to be safe!

 

[SliK JiM]

Chameleon Company get out while you can!

 

[Grizz]

my cham would pull the rocks out to get to the soil. i ended up screening off the top of the plants. i don't know that he eats the soil, it is organic, but i stopped him nontheless.

 

[chambabysitter1]

Sorry.



anyways, we might have a much smaller forum,
but almost everyone uses substrate and very few of them eat substrate.

You have a big forum, but only a handfull have used substrate and seen them eat it.
If everyone were to use it and see for themselves, you might come to a correct figure.


But numbers don't really matter. If you don't want to use it, you don't have to and it works as well.
And if I saw a cham eat it I would remove it from his cage, and his cage only.

Small or not, polled numbers from a smaller source aren't conclusive. So saying something like, nobody has had it happen to them on your forum maybe true, but at the same time the smaller amount of users gives us a smaller amount of people polled.

Smaller polled numbers usually result in inconclusive evidence. Not saying it is wrong, just more likely inconclusive than concrete at this point.

It's like saying 9/10 americans have black hair, because 9/10 of my family members have black hair. Well just because my family has black hair, doesn't make it conclusive to the scope of the entire US.

 

[Tom Carlier]

Forget the polled numbers, and black hair has not nothing to do with why chameleons eat soil.


I know that a lot of people in Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, and other EU countries use substrate.
I've heard a few say that they've seen it happen once or twice,
but it's not that common.
And none of them said that the animals got impacted or died because of bacteria and such.
Smaller number of members and chameleons, perhaps, but if it really were that common over here, we wouldn't do it the way we do.

In a group of a few hundred, statistically there should then altleast be one who had a very bad experience with it.

 

[SliK JiM]

Too true! Everyone has different things that works for them and I don't see why such a big deal has arisen out of this! I'd use substrate if I thought I could give up the time to clean it and stuff, but I don't think I can so I just cover all of my pots to be safe! As long as there's nothing to un-natural going into your chosen substrate, there should be no problems as chams can surely eat whatever the hell they want in the wild!

I think I'm hitting unsubscribe now too! lol

 

[Titan]

Ok, so some are bailing out on this thread, I would like all to answer 2 Questions here before you all go?

1) For watering your Chameleons where do you get the water from you supply them? Simple question but it may correlate (give reason) to why Chams eat Dirt?

2) Also those that have witness their Chameleons eating dirt, What species are they? Just to see what Types are eating the most dirt, also may show us some cause for reason?

Please answer these so possibly we can get to the bottom of this eating desire, better. Cause I have to admit, if we dont we will be hearing for years, new threads asking member why their Chameleon is eating dirt?

 

[wheresstimpy]

Why do dogs eat poop?

haha, my girlfriend and i were discussing the cham/dirt issue and she was like "at least he doesnt eat poop on the hill like penny(my boxer) does..."
its kind of funny, my panther used to eat dirt from time to time (like a snack) then i covered the soil with rocks, and he chewed on the rocks for a bit (several weeks on and off) then out of no where just stopped the behavior completely for several months, last week i replanted all his plants (while he was sleeping), and i didn't put the rocks back in, sure enough, as soon as he woke up he ran right down and took a bite... im not sure he's the smartest chameleon, but he sure is entertaining. Needless to say, i put some new rocks over all his plants again.

 

[Tom Carlier]

1) For watering your Chameleons where do you get the water from you supply them?
2) Also those that have witness their Chameleons eating dirt, What species are they?

I use tap water for my pardalis, there is cocopeat on the bottom of the cage and he doesn't eat it.

Calyptratus, same story: tap water, cocopeat and didn't eat it.





Maybe this is a stupid suggestion,
but over here, we all use glass cages and substrate. We very rarely see them eat soil.
In the USA you have a warmer climate and use screen cages and no soil, and they try to eat whatever bit of substrate they can get their teeth in.

Might one of these differences trigger the need to eat substrate?

 

[lrg83caleb]

Ok, so some are bailing out on this thread, I would like all to answer 2 Questions here before you all go?

1) For watering your Chameleons where do you get the water from you supply them? Simple question but it may correlate (give reason) to why Chams eat Dirt?

2) Also those that have witness their Chameleons eating dirt, What species are they? Just to see what Types are eating the most dirt, also may show us some cause for reason?

Please answer these so possibly we can get to the bottom of this eating desire, better. Cause I have to admit, if we dont we will be hearing for years, new threads asking member why their Chameleon is eating dirt?

Male Panther Chameleon:
I use tap water right out of the faucet
I have seen him eat dirt a few times in the past week. I finally had to cover the soil with rocks.