Wild Caught. Pros and Cons

Texas Panther Man said:
Its Yemen Not Jemen. And if a chameleon is captured and caged then it is considered wc. All the jacksons coming in from hawaii are considered wc. So would any veiled that was captured in Florida. :rolleyes:
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In my language it's Jemen. Sorry, most of the Americans don't speak more than one language.From the technical pointo of view WC is WC but from the genetics: No !
 
eisentrauti said:
A WC calyptratus comes from Jemen and not from Florida... Real WC ones have a much bigger genpool than the stuff living in captivity.
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Yemens are now found in florida as well as Hawaii. They are considered a "pest" and economic distrubtance in Hawaii, that they are now band. I do not believe they are exterminated if you want to call it that, but they are certainly not allowed to be imported in.
 
kinyonga said:
Maybe a little off topic...
Yemens in Hawaii...
"They are invasive and illegal in Hawaii. It is against the law to import, breed, keep as pets, sell, release, or export veiled chameleons. Penalties can include a fine of up to $200,000 and a possible prison sentance"...
http://pbin.nbii.org/reportapest/pestlist/chacal.htm
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yup, i forgot exactly what it was all about, but that is insane, 200,000$ fine and possible slammer time. wow, poor veileds. lol
 
I was just using Hawaii and jacksons chams as an example of captive chams now being considred wc because they have bred and multiplied since escaping into the surrounding area. I was not aware of a pop of wild veiled's in Hawaii. I knew there were a cpl of areas in Fl but I wasnt aware of hawaii also.
 
Is it possible that the importation of wc chams to the right person/breeder is actually beneficial to a species in terms of removing animals from areas that may suffer from deforestation, pollution etc?

I know that in the case of frogs, many endangered or threatened species are actually being intentionally pulled from the wild in order to breed them in hopes that they may one day be re-released. Of course, chams arent being wiped out by a fungus, as far as I know.

just curious.
 
I think it will be something that may be considered in the future with certain species. Because as things are going now. Certain species may have no viable areas of usable habitat left. With human pop increases and slash and burn agric.
 
im sure it will come to a time, where almost all species in endangered parts will be exported for beneficial reasons. one could be for conservation. madagascar is a place that is deteriating its economy, and as said earlier, the smugglers and suppliers there treat the animals terribly for a buck. it could very well be a possibility that organizations will do what they can to conserve and repopulate various species. jmo
 
jrh3 said:
How much are you wanting to bet.......I have a Chamaeleo Calyptratus.....Yemen, Africa.
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ill bet you nothing since you have a calyptratus in your dp :) im not sure how much folks would be willing to bet you have a WC one.. where and why would you get a WC calyptratus with such vasts amount of CB ready in the market?

im not doubting you at all, just why?
 
I was talking to eisentrauti who said he bets i dont have one. LOL

I have him because he offers a newly introduced bloodline with a larger genepool.
 
I think most of the CB are becoming more closley related with the amounts on the market, then you get into genetic issues and so on.
 
jrh3 said:
I think most of the CB are becoming more closley related with the amounts on the market, then you get into genetic issues and so on.
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they wont realy be related if they are not from the same clutch right? a veileds a veileds, and yes you can get your "high" morphs. and WCs do bring out great bloodlines and colours, but still, a veiled is realy a veiled isnt it. i personally would love a WC calyptratus, i heard they get a lot bigger than CB veileds, and yes offer some variations of colours and patterns. mostly yellows and oranges from what ive heard

how long have you been keeping chameleons and do you plan on breeding this guy soon? was he a WC from yemen or florida?
 
Texas Panther Man said:
I was just using Hawaii and jacksons chams as an example of captive chams now being considred wc because they have bred and multiplied since escaping into the surrounding area. I was not aware of a pop of wild veiled's in Hawaii. I knew there were a cpl of areas in Fl but I wasnt aware of hawaii also.
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The jacksons in Hawaii were not captive bred to begin with. From the story I have heard over and over is that a person imported a group of WCs, put them outside to rehydrate/house and something happened to where they all escaped.

Now the veiled populations in the US are probably from all CB bloodlines that owners did not want anymore. What Benny (eisentrauti) is saying is that even though jrh3's was caught in the wild it is not necessarily a WC animal as in fresh genetics from Yemen (sorry Benny for my poor american language skills:D).

Jacksons in the US may have been from WC stock and veileds in the US may have been from all CB stock but when it comes down to it I dont think any of the populations have a very diverse gene pool. IMO you might have a better chance of getting different blood for your breeding groups from these wild populations of veileds in the US but do not think that there hasnt been inbreeding going on for any of these species to build their populations in a non native habitat.
 
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Exactly, Hared. But let the unknowing believe what they want... I can try to put a few damaranum males outside in my garden and catch them a month later. Then I have real WC ones, fresh bloodlines !....
 
No it doesnt work like that. There are chameleons in FL that has been in the wild and have produced offspring for years. They ARE wild caught, no they didnt come from Yemen but they are still a Wild Born chameleon. They there are the true Yemen caught I guess to make it clear we can start useing FC and YC florida caught and yemen caught
 
jrh3 said:
No it doesnt work like that. There are chameleons in FL that has been in the wild and have produced offspring for years. They ARE wild caught, no they didnt come from Yemen but they are still a Wild Born chameleon. They there are the true Yemen caught I guess to make it clear we can start useing FC and YC florida caught and yemen caught
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But they have the same genpool than the stuff which could be buyed at every pet shop. There's one thing which makes them better: The parental generations of them have prooved that they can survive in the wild, many of the ones which are living in captivity are produced from small animals, sibling parents etc
 
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