That was what I was trying to say, but apparently I am:
"a.) extremly hypocritical or
b.) extremly dumb"
Nice.
Wild Caught
- Thread starter PedroANDAshley
- Start date
That was what I was trying to say, but apparently I am:
"a.) extremly hypocritical or
b.) extremly dumb"
Nice.
FFSTRescue
New Member
oh, don't forget "... not better than the guys supporting PETA the masses-pet-killers".
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
For me it seems every time I look at Kingsnake there are excesses of wild caught panthers plus plenty of captive bred animals. From my perception of the situation it seems some of the wild caught animals are in excess and are going to waste. In other words there is more than plenty panthers out there or at least here in the states and some wild caught imports should be cut back some as to not allow wasting these animals.
eisentrauti
Avid Member
That's my opinion to people who generalize this question...
@FFSTRescue: Do you want the numbers and statistics of PETAs dealing with cats and dogs ?
FFSTRescue
New Member
I have it, thank you though.
oh, don't forget "... not better than the guys supporting PETA the masses-pet-killers".
Yeah, I'm going to try and forget that. I really am. If only people knew who they were talking to, but such are the joys of the internet.
eisentrauti
Avid Member
It's a way to avoid the poverty for some people down there. And what makes the WCs still needed is the fact that especially in the USA the number of cross breed animals is extremely high. Or let's say too high to guarantee more or less pure bloodlines for future keepers
FFSTRescue
New Member
Lol, so true... so true.
eisentrauti
Avid Member
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/ What do the supporters say to those numbers ? Maybe I'm not intelligent enough to understand them.
And as a PETA supporter: Is it possible with the ideas of PETA to keep pets just for fun ?
And as a PETA supporter: Is it possible with the ideas of PETA to keep pets just for fun ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that you are saying people that don't support the export of wc chameleons also support peta.
Sorry, no connection there.
FFSTRescue
New Member
Is this post about Peta or collecting WC chameleons? Enough with the opprobrious comments that add nothing to this conversation. No one is disagreeing with you about Peta, where did that even come from anyway???
Anyway... about the subject at hand, being WC chameleons, anyone else?
Anyway... about the subject at hand, being WC chameleons, anyone else?
eisentrauti
Avid Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that you are saying people that don't support the export of wc chameleons also support peta.
Please give me the quote where I have written this. About the PETA thing: We can continue this with pms, but without arguments, I'm sure you won't do it.
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
An idea, may be less numbers of exported panthers and higher prices for those panthers. It has done wonders for controlling excesses Parsons being exported at least here in the states. And would be less work for about the same or more money for local Malagasy.
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eisentrauti
Avid Member
One reason why I support the export of the pardalis are the relative high prices importeurs have to pay for them. The bring 3-4 times more than a lateralis or Uroplatus spec.
But again it's still my main argument that the collection of such species isn't the problem, habitat destroying is the real thread.
In Madagascar people burn the forests to make plantations, in the gulf of Mexico oil companys can quarry oil with ridiculous security regulations. Money is the problem here and there, the only difference is the amount of it.
In Madagscar the farmer pays a few bucks that the authorities don't care for the planed forest fires, in the our countries companys pay for the campaigns of politicians or guarantee them nice jobs at the supervisory bord after their political carrer.
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
I concur with you habitat loss is the first major concern and issue when it comes to conserving chameleons. However over collecting can also be a major concern and people should not be in the habit of over collecting. Look at what happened to Radiated tortoises.
sgvreptiles
New Member
I can say with alot of Madagascar chameleon species their are quotas. Very small quotas for some species like Brookesia. And some large quotas like oustaleti.
In the next few years to come. I will bet their will be more exportation of what are now rare chameleons in the hobbys(C.globifer for example) coming in in large numbers as their populations(from who ive spoken with) are doing very well in the wild.
Wild caught animals are 100% nessecary for you people who want CB animals. Its people like us who want to get the wild animals,do all the hard work of getting them tip top shape to give people happy healthy animals. It is sad to see the price of so many wild animals being so low. But the truth is, they die, Easily. And alot of importers know that sometimes you will get a batch of all gravid females and they will lay eggs and die. Its sad, but it happens.
Importing and exporting will never stop as long as their are people like everyone on here who buy/sale/ and trade reptiles. You want it to stop. Stop buying animals.
In the next few years to come. I will bet their will be more exportation of what are now rare chameleons in the hobbys(C.globifer for example) coming in in large numbers as their populations(from who ive spoken with) are doing very well in the wild.
Wild caught animals are 100% nessecary for you people who want CB animals. Its people like us who want to get the wild animals,do all the hard work of getting them tip top shape to give people happy healthy animals. It is sad to see the price of so many wild animals being so low. But the truth is, they die, Easily. And alot of importers know that sometimes you will get a batch of all gravid females and they will lay eggs and die. Its sad, but it happens.
Importing and exporting will never stop as long as their are people like everyone on here who buy/sale/ and trade reptiles. You want it to stop. Stop buying animals.
As someone who was only able to get my desired species wc, I am now rethinking the whole situation. If a person only wants one as a pet, get something cb. Leave the wc ones for the folks that can successfully breed, and will hopefully one day end the need for wild caught. After mine pass away, I doubt I will have chams again
I agree. Hobbyists should stick to stick to captively breed, if at all possible. Plus they're typically hardier and parasite free. Let the breeders deal with the wild caught.
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
Don't hold your breath. People have been speculating about that for the last 15 years. The study you're referencing regarding the population size of C. globifer and other species was published in 1999 and it failed to get export quotas established for those species.
Chris
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