Wilson update, not improving

brighteyez

New Member
I've posted about my cham's eyes before, but he hasn't been getting better. Originally just his right eye would close sometimes, but now he has just started closing his left eye too, and I have noticed that in the past few days he has become a lot less active. He used to crawl around a good bit, but now, he spends most of his time sitting in his favorite plant covered by the leaves. Just now I caught him sleeping, which I know is supposed to be a bad sign.

Here are the two threads for reference:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/right-eye-25971/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/help-26054/

Here's his info:

cage type- screen repterium, 16"x14"x36", approx
lighting- one reptisun 5.0 uva, linear 18", and a basking light, i thinks it's 40watt but not quite sure. They are on from 7am to 8:30ish. And I also have a repti glo 5.0 uvb linear bulb that I turn on if it's getting to cold. I don't own any compact bulbs!
Humidity- Generally it's between 45-55. I try not to let it get bellow 50, but at the moment I'm hand misting, several times a day since I don't yet have a mister.
Plants- I have two pothos, one hanging and one on the floor, one bromiliad, and um, something else I can't remember the name of, but I know it's ok for chams.
Location- The cage is on top of a shelf thingy, about two feet off the ground in the corner of the living room, by the back glass sliding door. It's not too high traffic, mostly just me and my husband.

My cham- Male jackson, I think 4 or 5 months old, and I've had him for about 2 months now.
Handling- I generally don't if I can avoid it. My husband will pick him up once in a while, but definately not often.
Feeding- ekk! He's a bad feeder. He normally will only eat a few bugs a day, sometimes just one. I've had a lot of trouble getting him to eat ever since I got him. I mostly cup feed, and try to get him to eat several times a day (normally I fail). His menu consists of silk worms, crickets, mealworms, house flies, blue bottle flies, super worms, butter worms, phoenix worms and wax worms.
Supplements- mon rep cal, tue flucker's cal with d3, wed rep cal, thurs rep cal, fri reptivite without d3, sat nothing, sun rep cal.
Watering- I have a dripper, but I don't use it consistantly. He never seems interested in it. I mist for a minute or two several times a day, maybe five. I basically mist every time I walk by and see the humidity is low. Yes I see him drink.
Fecal- I don't think he poos daily, but I'm not sure, since he likes to hide in his plants, and if he poos in there, I won't really know right away. They are often kinda on the liquidy side. Urates normally white.
He's never been tested for parasites.

Since the first two posts, I figured it was a vitA definency, and started dusting his bugs with reptivite once a week, since that has preformed vitA. I've also been putting silk worms with vitA oil (just a little bit) smeared on their backs. Wilson doesn't always go for them though.

I also haven't taken him to the vet yet. Can someone please give me a recommendation for a got rept vet in NC??? I know there aren't any near by, so I wanna make sure I'm going to a good one before driving several hours to get there.

Thanks!
 
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Yea, he isn't doing too hot. You can see by the way he carries himself. Also, is he next to a window...I would seriously suggest moving him away from that it is probably too hot in that area even with your blinds closed.

Where in NC are you?

-chris
 
Eww...the best vet that I know of is Dr. Matt Wheelock. He is down here in Charlotte. But honestly, when montane species start going down hill it is very difficult to get them back. Also, yours is more than likely a wild caught which adds to the frustration because now you not only have to think of your set up being adequate but also, what parasites may he have come in with.

Montane species should be avoided by the novice.

Tell us a little more about his set up, ie. supplementation, how long he has been sleeping in the day, how much he eats, the lighting (both UVB and heat), as well as watering.

-chris
 
Eww...the best vet that I know of is Dr. Matt Wheelock. He is down here in Charlotte. But honestly, when montane species start going down hill it is very difficult to get them back. Also, yours is more than likely a wild caught which adds to the frustration because now you not only have to think of your set up being adequate but also, what parasites may he have come in with.

Montane species should be avoided by the novice.

Tell us a little more about his set up, ie. supplementation, how long he has been sleeping in the day, how much he eats, the lighting (both UVB and heat), as well as watering.

-chris

um, I thought I was pretty thurough with the info I gave, is there anything else in particular you know that I left out. hmmm. Let's see, eating has always be a problem for him. I know that he ate a silk worm with a little bit of vitA oil on it yesterday. But I normally don't sit and watch him eat, so I'm not sure exactly how much he's eaten in the past few days. I used to hand feed him but that didn't really work, so now I have a container with bug in it all day long, with a food in the bottom for the bugs to eat. I change the bugs out once a day. Watering, I have a dripper for him which I try to fill two times a day. and I mist him all the time.
The eye problem started about 2 weeks ago, and hasn't gotten much better, but he hasn't really gotten a lot worse either.
 
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

You forgot that part.

Good luck.
 
His eye is shut...it is hard to tell if it honestly is getting worse. The only reason I am concerned is because the way he is holding himself...he has the droopy look going on. And that fact you don't see him eat isn't good. He isn't full grown and you should definitely see him eat. It is hard to tell you what is happening because it could be a number of things. You may want to get a fecal done so that you know you are just battling yourself to give him a suitable habitat for optimal health and not some parasite.

-chris
 
I talked to Dr. Wheelock yesterday and he had me give Wilson a bath. He's a bit more mobile today, but I'm still working on getting him to a vet today or tomorrow.

Chambabysitter, temps, you're right! His basking spot is normally around 79, and the rest of the cage is like 75. Dr. Wheelock told me that even though he's a montane, that's not hot enough, so I've been working today on getting it hotter.
 
his basking spot shoudl be higher, but the rest of the cage should be fine as is. The important thing is to allow them to regulate their temps - hot to cool.

I'd cut back on the vitamin A now that he's had some - you run the risk of overdosing them with vitamin A. Especially the oil. It is stored in the liver - so a little goes a long way for a long time.

Keep him hydrated. If there was a vitamin A deficeincy, it's probably taken care of. Any other problems can be addressed as they arise.
 
Ok, here's an update!!

I took Wilson to a dr. and she said it wasn't vit A, just an eye infection. She gave me eye drops and some carnivour care so that I could hand feed him since he wasn't really eating on his own. That was over a week ago, and I've used up all the eye drops. His eyes are better, he'll open both of them sometimes, but he's still kinda sluggish and will sometimes sit with both eyes closed. I'm wondering if I should start using terramycin, to clear up anything that's left over. Advice?? I remeber someone on the forum suggesting it to me a while ago.
 
What's the cage humidity level range (how high right after you mist and how low before you mist again). It could be a lot lower than you realize which will dehydrate him despite your misting. How are you measuring humidity? Don't trust the little analog gauges from pet shops. They aren't very reliable. Montane chams are more sensitive to humidity and once they are dehydrated they end up with eye problems, and can't or won't eat either. Ways to keep the humidity higher include MORE live plants, larger pots (more soil surface to release moisture...you can cover the soil with window screen to keep the cham from picking up dirt on its tongue), hanging some plastic sheeting on the back and or sides of the cage to help retain some spray, using an ultrasonic room humidifier (about $40 from a pharmacy or home improvement store), or a full blown mister on a timer. Depending on the humidity level of your room and whether you use an air conditioner in summer, this could be part of the problem. Dry eyes are more prone to infections.
 
I am so sorry to hear this. The vet recommedation is a good one if you can find a trust worthy Vet. I have noticed in the pasts vets know less than I do about chams. and they tend to just rip people off, because after all they are a business. I know some will disagree, but I can find all the info. I need right here in a forum. Howerver, if you need an expert opinion a vet can help if he or she is good. Good luck.
 
OK, here's what's up.
For a while there I thought Wilson was getting better. I bought a humidifier and a stronger bulb for his basking light and he started moving around and eating on his own. But a few days ago he started going back to the way he was. He doesn't move around much, and sleeps all day, and when I offer him food he looked like he was going to eat, but then just fell asleep again.
I'm at a loss. What should I do???
He's still got a rather tight grip, and I can't see anything coming out of his eyes, like a discharge. What should the temp be in his basking around, and for the rest of the cage (I just want to double check them).
My poor little guy is just sleeping on my lap right now. I'm worried for him.
Please help.
 
I know from experience with Lily how hard it is to see them so poorly and feel so helpless. Try to keep him hydrated. Do you have a needle-less syringe that you could use to trickle water over his mouth?
 
I know from experience with Lily how hard it is to see them so poorly and feel so helpless. Try to keep him hydrated. Do you have a needle-less syringe that you could use to trickle water over his mouth?

Yes I do have a needless syringe, I'll do that.
 
Suggestions, advice?......anyone?

Today when I went to check on him during the evening, I found him on the bottom of the cage with his eyes closed, while the mister was running. Later he was back up on a branch though, so I don't know if he was down there because he's sick, or because he was chasing a cricket, and then closed his eyes when the mister came on.
 
If it was an eye infection you should probably go back to the vet. Do you still have medicine? One of our female panthers had an eye infection and was showing signs similar to yours. We have her on an antibiotic (vibromyacin) and an antibiotic/steroid eye drop.

From what I got out of my vet visit was that the eye is right next to the sinus cavity and the infection can spread to that easily (happened to hera). Is his face a little swolen? That's how we could tell she had something going on. We still have her on meds (2 weeks later) but she is looking 100% better. The vet told us the main problem with chameleons is that they usually take a bit to get healthy.

Good luck with him.
 
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