Won’t shoot tongue
- Thread starter Weebo
- Start date
Ya I had a female get MBD a few years ago and I don’t notice any of those signs with the male in the pictures. It’s just the tongue not functioning. Vet appointment tomorrow at 5:00 hopefully they find something with vitamin levels that’s an easy fix.
I took more pics and his head/casque do look very swollen
Attachments
This might be of interest to you...
https://www.adcham.com/html/veterinary/vet-tongue-problems-kramer.html
And this...
"One of the first symptoms of hypocalcemia in this group is poor muscle tone manifested as flaccid paralysis of the tongue. The affected chameleons either cannot shoot their tongue at prey in a normal fashion or, if they do, are unable to retract it so that it hangs from their mouth"...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/chamaeleon
https://www.adcham.com/html/veterinary/vet-tongue-problems-kramer.html
And this...
"One of the first symptoms of hypocalcemia in this group is poor muscle tone manifested as flaccid paralysis of the tongue. The affected chameleons either cannot shoot their tongue at prey in a normal fashion or, if they do, are unable to retract it so that it hangs from their mouth"...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/chamaeleon
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CrisBruns
Established Member
Found this in an old post. Subcutaneous air from a respiratory infection. Wild. 6 months would seem a rather long course for that though. Please let us know what the vet says.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/swelling-of-casque-and-cheeks.155663/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/swelling-of-casque-and-cheeks.155663/
I’m not seeing signs of respiratory infection. No gaping mouth. No bubbles or saliva from mouth and nose. No staring up. I’ve treated respiratory before with another veiled. I’m still leaning towards a vitamin imbalance
The Vet didn’t really say much. She said he is strong and active. She did a blood test to see calcium levels. She said there is no way of testing vitamin A levels. For now I’m syringe feeding him a mixture of baby food (carrots) 100% vitamin A, water, and Heptavite multivitamin. I also got him to take a hornworm with tongs
DocZ
Chameleon Enthusiast
This is very enlightening. The enlarged fatty liver reminds me of our patients with NASH (non-alcoholic steatohepatitis). Its becoming one of the most common causes of end stage liver disease requiring transplant in humans
Now I have to look up steato to!
Got it!
Iwas reading about vitamin A deficiency and supplements. I am seeing different opinions on whether a multi vitamin should have actual Vitamin A with retinol ...or beta carotene.
I use herptivite which is beta carotene. No actual vitamin A
I read that Repashy Supervite is a retinol containing multivitamin and is the correct one to use. Thoughts?
CrisBruns
Established Member
I agree. There is also an emerging entity of fatty lung disease as well in humans. I also think the similarities in metabolic bone diseases are really interesting too. I’m an endocrinologist so you know we geek out over this kind of stuff.
The Vet did leave a message today saying they think their is an infection from the blood work. She wants to prescribe and antibiotic. Crazy maybe this actually is The same situation. I’m have a vitamin problem as well though because he is not using his tongue
Why if it's not MBD does it follow that it's a vitamin A issue?
To explain vitamin A and chameleons...
There are two forms of vitamin A....prOformed and PrEformed. PrOformed is from carotenoids such as beta carotene. PrEformed sources come from meat products and have words such as retinol, retinyl, retinal, etc in the name. PrOformed sources are converted by the body as needed and will not cause an overdose. PrEformed sources are ready to go and can lead to overdoses...and the excess. Is stored in the body.
It is not known/proven whether all/any chameleons can convert prOformed vitamin A to useable vitamin A or not....or if they convert it but not well. For this reason I have for years recommended using a vitamin powder with a beta carotene prOformed source of vitamin A so there is no worry bout overdosing it. This leaves it up to the owner to use a prEdformed source if there are signs of a shortage of vitamin A ...and use it with a lot of caution.
Now there's a bit more to the story...vitamin A and vitamin D3 are somewhat antagonistic to each other and also need to be in balance or MBD could be the result.
Carrots contain prOformed vitamin A and so does herptivite, as you already know...so if he can't convert prOformed vitamin A, he will still be short of it.
I've kept veiled chameleons for many years and I do not use prEformed vitamin A with them and nothing they eat or the insects eat has any prEform d vitamin A in it either and they never show up with signs of hypovitwminosis A.
I still don't know what's causing your chameleon's tongue issue.
I hope the nit biotic loves the problem.
Just curious. If they cannot overdose on beta carotene.....why do we only dust twice a month?
Part of the reason is that there are other vitamins in the vitamin powder besides beta carotene.
DocZ
Chameleon Enthusiast
Ha! You probably actually understand all this stuff. I’m hoping we talk about general anesthesia, peripheral nerve blocks, or fiberoptic intubation so I can add something. I’m having to dig deep to get back into nutrition
