Worried about MBD in 4 1/2 month old male veiled

[liveurlyfe21]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled, 4 1/2 month old male, purchased at five weeks old.
Handling - when I clean the cage, once a week or so.
Feeding - feeding crickets, with occasional small superworm, waxworm or mealworm. gut loading with carrots, spinach, apple, and other spring greens.
Supplements - Repcal calcium every day at second feeding (3 crickets?), and same brand every two weeks calcium with D3, also multivitamin every two weeks.
Watering - Mist cage 3 times a day, and I do see him drinking.
Fecal Description - dark brown round droppings with the white thing as well, although recently saw a even darker and not round splotch on bottom of cage.
History - When we first purchased we gave him calcium crickets at every feeding but then saw white excess on his nose and a friend stated we gave him too much so we cut back .other than that no problems and seems healthy...
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen cage all around, i'd say medium size, looking to upgrade in two months.
Lighting - Reptisun 5.0 UVB Compact Flourescent UVA, turn on in morning off at night usually 12 hours apart. Repti basking lamp 100 watt and a purple night time heat for cold nights
Temperature - basic temp around 80F
Plants - fake plants came with set up when purchased from the reptile store.
Placement - In off room, not near anything but a wall and couch on a cabinet stand.
Location - Northwest, washington.

Current Problem - After reading multiple things on MBD and psyching myself out, I am very worried about our little baby. He is not showing any symptoms such as being larthargic, falling or anything out of the ordinary but as he is growing it seems that his forearms look weird to me with a bump below the elbow?(pictures within). I have been trying to compare but as this is our first cham, i'm just unsure. Any suggestions or help would be appreciated!

 

[gstspyder]

He needs to see a vet! Im pretty sure its mbd....thats what it looks like anyways.....

 

[DavidBuchan]

Hello, welcome to the forum I agree it looks like the beginnings of mbd, and therefore a vet would be good. Maybe a calcium injection or some oral calcium drops would be best. The white stuff you saw on his nose was excess salts, not calcium. It is nothing to worry about so you were probably dusting better before.
Is the ambient temp 80F? That's a bit warm unless you mean that's his basking temp.
Even the purple light could disturb his sleep, so a ceramic heater would be better if it gets too cold there at night (less than 55F). Other than that he looks pretty good, I'm sure you've spotted it in time to do plenty about it. Maybe you could order some Calciworms for him and add some more calcium rich food into his gutload (dandelion leaves, butternut squash..) Here's a gret link for gutloading info. - https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html
Here's a great all-round caresheet I always recommend to new members with Veileds - https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/chameleonsinmyhouse/395-veiled-chameleon-care-sheet.html

 

[liveurlyfe21]

oh no!

Sadly I figured as much looking at the pictures closer I didn't want to accept it. I wish we wouldn't have backed off the calcium, I was afraid of overdosing. Thank you for the responses! those links are really helpful!!. I made a vet appointment but it is not until next tuesday. It makes me so sad, weve tried so hard to be good parents! Anyways, I'm at work, but sending to boyfriend to get more collard greens and such. The eighty degrees is his basking temp, and we will no longer use the heat black light at night, i'll double check tonight but I think it is warm enough in that room.
I will look into the calciworms as well, any ideas of things we could do until tuesday? should we be putting calcium on everything he eats from now on?

I really do not want this to get worse! We love our baby Rico.

(Also looking at pictures from just a few weeks ago, I can defiantley see the difference in his front legs now! It's crazy just a couple of weeks ago he looked fine.)

 

[DavidBuchan]

I would be putting the plain calcium on everything for now, yes (except on d3 days of course )
I don't think there's anything else to do apart from from keeping him as you have been.
Because it takes a while to show any symptoms it might get a little worse, but your early spotting of it should keep it very mild. I'm guessing he's your first Cham or you probably wouldn't have cut back on Calcium. Does the friend who advised you keep chams?

 

[Adam Harrelson]

also put a uvb bulb on it to absorb d3

 

[DavidBuchan]

also put a uvb bulb on it to absorb d3

There already is a reptisun 5.0, that'll do fine

 

[liveurlyfe21]

Yes, this is our first cham. The friend has had one cham and I know realize that we should've listened to the reptile store rather than him. I was too afraid of oversupplementing. Also got better gutloading items: collard, mustard and dandelion greens. thanks!

Hopefully the vet trip will help!

Does anyone have any good links for MBD?

 

[HolyToledo]

There are lots of good threads on here about MBD recovery and survival. You can even watch vids on youtube. Check out the threads by Riven about her Pascal, there is a current case by Kerbie on the Health Clinic forum as well as many others. And on youtube, the most amazing recovery I can think of is JoJo but there are other on there too.

The best thing you can do for your Rico is vet administered shots of calcium and then a shot that helps the bones to absorb the calcium from the blood. That is the quickest and easiest to fix him right up.

Otherwise, there are lots of tips and info on the MBD related threads. (I had a boy with bone issues but it wasn't the classic MBD but was treated the same as without the shots because he didn't tolerate them at all.)

Good luck and I sure wish you the best. It can be a long, tough journey without the injections but these guys are soooooo worth it.

PS: No guarantee that the pet store's advice would have been better than your friends. Other than taking Rico to the vet, you did the best thing by coming here to get info! Welcome to the forum!

 

[liveurlyfe21]

Okay thanks! I will defiantly look them up, for sure. I've heard our vet is very well-known for chams and reptiles, so I hope she administers the right treatment. They defiantly are soo worth it! I will research much more .

And thank you I've been reading posts on here since we got him, should've joined earlier It is good to know that we have been doing most of the right things and that maybe the pet store could not have helped us. Although I sure hope to get him on the path to recovery! I just hope that he is not in too much pain. our poor baby!

 

[kinyonga]

Sorry that your chameleon is having trouble.
When it comes to MBD you need to correct the imbalance so that it won't get worse and also correct your husbndry to keep it from happening again.
The quickest way to correct it is for the vet to give it injections of calcium until the blood calcium levels are high enough to give it a shot of calcitonin to quickly draw the calcium back into the bones.

Look at what you are feeding the chameleon...what you are feeding the insects...the supplements you are using...the temperature...the UVB light you are providing to make sure they are all in balance/correct.

Good luck!

 

[Elizadolots]

Here's a thread that will inspire you. It's long but trust me, it's sooooo worth reading!

https://www.chameleonforums.com/please-help-poss-impaction-veiled-female-67257/

 

[liveurlyfe21]

Thank you that thread it was great!

Update; Rico went to the vet today.

Good news, we caught it early enough that a simple larger dosage of calcium for the next two months and a temp raise, should suffice.

bad news is that our vet did not want to have to anesthesia him, draw blood and possibly break a bone, to get his calcium content. and without that she could not give him an injection for risk of his internal organs.

So overall, we have been told to keep his branches lower for the risk of breaking something, calcium for the next two months and follow up with an xray to make sure his bone density levels are back up.

Also we were told that he is rather large for his age and could have contributed to the calcium to growth rate ratio that ended up with this poor disease.

Anyways, we will keep updates on him but he seems to be doing good I sure hope we can expect a strong recovery!

p.s. as in the first post we no longer have heat at night, more humidity, and dandelion, mustard greens, carrots and squash

 

[FranPhilip]

Yes, this is our first cham. The friend has had one cham and I know realize that we should've listened to the reptile store rather than him. I was too afraid of oversupplementing. Also got better gutloading items: collard, mustard and dandelion greens. thanks!

Hopefully the vet trip will help!

Does anyone have any good links for MBD?

Jann probably saved my chameleons life by helping me through his case of MBD, as i too got lazy with calcium. A vet might proscribe some Calcium Glubionate (liquid calcium) which is what Jann sent me a link to. Having no chameleon vets within 3 hours of me, i had to order and wait. Luckily it only took 3 days to get here, making his condition not that much worse, and now is doing nothing but improving.

Here is the link (thanks Jann )
http://www.petsupplies4less.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=29236

Honestly I try to just suck it up in an eye dropper and drop it on their mouth, if they dont drink it in a while ill wipe it off because its very sticky and will harden (which is what i found -_-)

Fran, Philip, and myself wish you the best of luck. Way to catch it early