Worried about my new panther

[Flick boy]

I recommend only 10 at a time so they don't swarm the cham and stress it. depending on the size of the enclosure 10 shouldn't pose a problem. I agree I would also offer a feed cup with some dubias or a horn worm.

What I'm saying is i f you free range your crickets, you don't know how many your cham has caught ,yes 10 might not be many , but if your cham only gets 5 a day the number of losse crickets in a week will soon build up and in a large enclosure ,and a young chameleon which you will want to be eating as much as possible I would not do anything other than use a feeder run , ( hungry loose crickets can cause damage) only my opinion, also fead a couple of times a day

 

[JackRipper]

What I'm saying is i f you free range your crickets, you don't know how many your cham has caught ,yes 10 might not be many , but if your cham only gets 5 a day the number of losse crickets in a week will soon build up and in a large enclosure ,and a young chameleon which you will want to be eating as much as possible I would not do anything other than use a feeder run , ( hungry loose crickets can cause damage) only my opinion, also fead a couple of times a day

sometimes good to err on the side of caution , I run bioactive enclosures and have had crickets successfully breed in the substrate. little pin heads emerge and crawl around competing with the isopods, springtails and other fauna in the leaf litter. I personally have never had the issue of hungry crickets eating my chameleon but I know they can nibble at them while sleeping. having plentiful cover and adequate space is most likely the key to my success in free range feeding. I try to take the most natural approach possible in my husbandry however I absolutely agree with cup feeding for those that are new to the hobby. Oh and I never free range Dubias or super worms only crickets really and black soldier flies and the mantids when they hatch.. and.. that's it no more ands lol

 

[Flick boy]

sometimes good to err on the side of caution , I run bioactive enclosures and have had crickets successfully breed in the substrate. little pin heads emerge and crawl around competing with the isopods, springtails and other fauna in the leaf litter. I personally have never had the issue of hungry crickets eating my chameleon but I know they can nibble at them while sleeping. having plentiful cover and adequate space is most likely the key to my success in free range feeding. I try to take the most natural approach possible in my husbandry however I absolutely agree with cup feeding for those that are new to the hobby. Oh and I never free range Dubias or super worms only crickets really and black soldier flies and the mantids when they hatch.. and.. that's it no more ands lol

I don't disagree with natural or free range, just as a keeper I want to know how much my cham is eating ( this is especially important with a female ) and also young chams in their forever home in a big enclosure. To make sure they are are getting enough sustenance. When reccomending something I will always err on the side of caution as you / I don't know how much experience the op has . And not all situations are the same irrespective of experience we are all learning. ( whether you have adequate space and coverage does not necessarily mean that what works for you or your cham ) will work for others, we can just share our thoughts and opinions, but also be mindful that we are or could be negatively affecting others , if they do not aplay common sense to their choices, so I try to play it safe

 

[JackRipper]

I don't disagree with natural or free range, just as a keeper I want to know how much my cham is eating ( this is especially important with a female ) and also young chams in their forever home in a big enclosure. To make sure they are are getting enough sustenance. When reccomending something I will always err on the side of caution as you / I don't know how much experience the op has . And not all situations are the same irrespective of experience we are all learning. ( whether you have adequate space and coverage does not necessarily mean that what works for you or your cham ) will work for others, we can just share our thoughts and opinions, but also be mindful that we are or could be negatively affecting others , if they do not aplay common sense to their choices, so I try to play it safe

Good point, my female loves the cup as most females will eat nomatter the circumstances she sees it as soon as I walk into the area and puts her bib on, I've had a few young males that won't go near a plastic cup and many others that have no problem eating from one. If the op can't get him to take from the cup then free range may be the only viable option, (that being said maybe only 5 crickets at a time now that I take into consideration that not everyone has a lush rain forest) they're always so timid when young they often won't take the risk if they don't feel safe so giving them space is crucial. literally hiding behind a ficus in my ghillie suit to observe at times

 

[Claritali]

Thank so much you all for your tips! I left him alone for some time but it turns out that stress is not the issue right now.

Took him to a reptile vet this morning (luckily only 10 minutes away), as he had still not eaten and seemed very weak. The vet confirmed his bad condition (he only weighs about 13 grams) and he is also anaemic. Throat looked fine so he suspects a parasite infection rather than a respiratory issue.

I was told to tube feed him twice a day to improve his body condition. Luckily I have some practice with tube feeding and he took the first feeding very well. He also gets a calcium solution to drink. Once I am able to collect some poop the vet will check for parasites and we can start treatment.

Poor boy, I really hope he makes it! Will update on the progress.

 

[Flick boy]

Thank so much you all for your tips! I left him alone for some time but it turns out that stress is not the issue right now.

Took him to a reptile vet this morning (luckily only 10 minutes away), as he had still not eaten and seemed very weak. The vet confirmed his bad condition (he only weighs about 13 grams) and he is also anaemic. Throat looked fine so he suspects a parasite infection rather than a respiratory issue.

I was told to tube feed him twice a day to improve his body condition. Luckily I have some practice with tube feeding and he took the first feeding very well. He also gets a calcium solution to drink. Once I am able to collect some poop the vet will check for parasites and we can start treatment.

Poor boy, I really hope he makes it! Will update on the progress.

Hope he picks up

 

[JackRipper]

Glad you took him in, please keep us updated once you know what type of parasite I would like to make note of the symptoms. hope all goes well

 

[Bazelthechameleon]

Hi! I’m late to this thread but the high humidity levels during the day could’ve contributed to the devlopment of a respiratory infection which would explain his symptoms. Lower the humidity during the day asap (maybe a longer interval between mistings and refrain from using a humidifier of any kind) and continue to keep a close eye on him until you get his fecal results back and can begin treatment. Good luck!

 

[Claritali]

Hi all,

Unfortunately the little guy didn't make it. He died Wednesday afternoon, just after I had gotten back the test results and could start treatment. The fecal float showed that he was indeed infected with a parasite, the vet noted 'several coccidia, several bacteria (rod and cocci)' in the file. Given that I don't own any other reptiles (or other pets), I assume he already got infected at the shop. I'm in contact with them to get my money back, so hopefully I can buy a healthy animal from a more trustworthy source at some point in the future.

Anyways I thought I'd share this just for reference, I hope it helps someone who might be in a similar situation. And thank you again for all your feedback and tips, it's really cool to see how active, friendly and knowledgeable this community is.

 

[JackRipper]

Sorry for your loss and thank you for keeping us updated. with that heavy of a parasite load he may have been wild caught. Hopefully you get your money back, there are several breeders on this forum that you can get a healthy captive bred from. Best of luck and thanks again

 

[JackRipper]

oh and when you do get another be sure to thoroughly clean that enclosure and replace everything inside or deep clean so your new Cham doesn't catch anything. I know you're disappointed and feeling down but in my opinion you did all you could and more with your set up and research

 

[Ghostbirb]

I’m so sorry for your loss! You did the best you could when he was here.

 

[Flick boy]

Hi all,

Unfortunately the little guy didn't make it. He died Wednesday afternoon, just after I had gotten back the test results and could start treatment. The fecal float showed that he was indeed infected with a parasite, the vet noted 'several coccidia, several bacteria (rod and cocci)' in the file. Given that I don't own any other reptiles (or other pets), I assume he already got infected at the shop. I'm in contact with them to get my money back, so hopefully I can buy a healthy animal from a more trustworthy source at some point in the future.

Anyways I thought I'd share this just for reference, I hope it helps someone who might be in a similar situation. And thank you again for all your feedback and tips, it's really cool to see how active, friendly and knowledgeable this community is.

So sorry for your loss

 

[PlanetRemulak]

Hi there, so sorry for your loss You did the right thing by reaching out here.

I got my first panther cham in 2021. I hadn’t kept a chameleon in YEARS and there was definitely a learning curve (believe it or not, it gets better!). I got my boy from Fram‘s Chams, so he was very healthy right from the beginning. I got him at the very end of July, so.. between August to mid October, I started to notice him closing his eyes during the day. That’s definitely not something you want to see in chameleons as they don’t sleep during the day at all. Turns out, I had been using the wrong multivitamin (it only had beta carotene in it, no preformed A vitamin. Common mistake), but that wasn’t the whole picture. Earlier, I had run out of feeders and bought some emergency crickets from Petco. In only a couple of days after feeding off the Petco crickets, the runny poops started. My cham’s eyes stayed closed even after I had bought the right multivitamin and began supplementing with it. Turns out he caught coccidia from the Petco crickets, and it was a nightmare to clean up. Issues with supplementation come up a lot, but any time you see eyes closed during the day, you‘re going to want to rule out parasites.

If you are still feeling like you’d like to try again with another chameleon, I strongly recommend thoroughly sanitizing the cage you had this little guy in, and tossing all the branches/vines/plants that were inside of it. Basically, if it isn’t a plastic or metal surface (and even plastic can be porous), get rid of it. Bleach won’t kill the coccidia oocysts, but 40 volume peroxide will. You can get it on Amazon or from any beauty supply store (it’s used to bleach hair). You’re going to want to empty the cage out entirely, take it outside and spray it down from top to bottom in 40 volume peroxide (inside and out). Scrub the frame, and wipe the mesh down with soapy water after you spray it down with the peroxide. let it sit for a week or so (not directly in sunlight. Bringing it back inside during that period is fine), then repeat that same process a second time. Goggles and gloves are a must because you definitely don’t want this stuff on your skin. Should you determine that this is entirely too much work, you can get a new cage. If you plan to keep your new chameleon’s cage in the same spot, I’d wipe down the surface the cage was on with the peroxide as well. Don’t re-use anything you had inside of your sick chameleon’s cage! if you used a wet vac to take care of all the water drainage, toss it or use it for something non-chameleon related (coccidia oocysts love water, and a wet vac is going to be next to impossible to sanitize). Coccidia is so difficult to get rid of, and as you have no doubt learned, it can also be life threatening in chameleons. After this experience, you definitely won’t want your new baby (if you get one) to get sick with it as well. I didn’t even keep the same temperature/hygrometer probes, I just replaced them all.

Buying from a pet store, chain or otherwise, is always such a gamble. There isn’t any telling where they source their animals from, nor do you know what condition they’re in by the time they arrive at the store. Parasites in store bought chams are unfortunately very common. I’d call around for an exotic vet willing to do a sample on your next chameleon before bringing it home. That way, you know exactly who to go to if you get a new baby and notice that anything is off. Fram‘s Chams, Ipardalis, Chromatic Chameleons and Kammerflage Kreations are all reputable breeders (and there are certainly more, those are just several I could think of off the top of my head).

Again, I‘m so sorry for your loss!

 

[Beppo]

Hi all,

Unfortunately the little guy didn't make it. He died Wednesday afternoon, just after I had gotten back the test results and could start treatment. The fecal float showed that he was indeed infected with a parasite, the vet noted 'several coccidia, several bacteria (rod and cocci)' in the file. Given that I don't own any other reptiles (or other pets), I assume he already got infected at the shop. I'm in contact with them to get my money back, so hopefully I can buy a healthy animal from a more trustworthy source at some point in the future.

Anyways I thought I'd share this just for reference, I hope it helps someone who might be in a similar situation. And thank you again for all your feedback and tips, it's really cool to see how active, friendly and knowledgeable this community is.

I’m so sorry for what you went through and if I might just recommend framschams, you can see how they house their chameleon and care for them on their site and they are really awesome people.

 

[Claritali]

Thank you all so much for your kind replies!

After taking a bit of a break I decided to adopt a chameleon that someone did not want to keep anymore. I cleaned the cage twice using peroxide, and of course replaced everything inside. I kept the new guy in 'quarantine' for 5 weeks, and got him tested after that time. He was all clear so I guess the cleaning worked!!

Very happy about that, and also a bit of a relief that it wasn't my bad husbandry.

Pascal has been with me since the end of May and we're slowly becoming friends. He loves sleeping under monstera leaves and doing acrobatics whenever I'm in a work call (he is on my desk). Very glad I didn't give up on chameleons all together!!

 

[elizaann2]

He is so precious! I love the pictures of him under the monstera leaves. What a doll!

 

[Andrew1283]

I have an enclosure right next to my work desk and I think it makes for a calmer chameleon. Having them next to you as opposed to holding them is totally different. I think they just get used to seeing a person doing their own thing, and ignoring them so they ignore us. We are both aware of each other, just not concerned one will eat the other!

 

[GrannyK]

Beautiful little guy! So glad you stayed in the game as well, they really are amazing creatures!

 

[Claritali]

I have an enclosure right next to my work desk and I think it makes for a calmer chameleon. Having them next to you as opposed to holding them is totally different. I think they just get used to seeing a person doing their own thing, and ignoring them so they ignore us. We are both aware of each other, just not concerned one will eat the other!

That actually makes a lot of sense, I had never thought about it like that. Just coexisting peacefully