Would you ever recommend a 10.0 or 12% UVB?

[Gingero]

Hi guys --

When helping new keepers transition from a compact UVB to a linear UVB, the go-to recommendation is a Reptisun 5.0 or an Arcadia 6%. My understanding is this is because this is the 'safer' option lowering the chances of overexposure. However, I use a 12% UVB with great success but I also have a solar meter so I know my UVI readings are where they need to be.

I'm mindful that the best way to know is with a solar meter but I'm also mindful that not everyone has one especially as a new keeper. Also mindful that there are a million factors that impact what UVB someone should use such as the way the enclosure is set-up, the age of the chameleon, species, their supplement schedule, etc.

I hear 6% for panthers and 12% for veileds -- but know of panther keepers who use 12% (like me) and veiled keepers who use 6% so I don't think this is a good way to dish out advice. I also hear 6% for lightly planted enclosures and 12% for heavily planted enclosures -- this is very subjective and might be hard for a new keeper to grasp.

So here is my question: Would you ever recommend a 10.0 or 12% UVB to a new cham keeper or to someone who doesn't have a solar meter? If yes, under what circumstances?

 

[SourGrape4u]

If they have coverage to hide under i would suggest. New keepers dont normally go all out on plants though at first.

 

[Prince of Duval]

Also might recommend if it’s in a dual or quad setup vs. a single bulb reflector. Or if your planning to raise the fixture vs. set it on the screen top.

 

[krikinit]

Thats a good question. I use 12% arcadia d3+ and have no issues. 5 chams 5 bearded dragons. They all have areas to retreat fully from uvb exposure. It comes down to how competent the person seems to be. If they seem savy to what it is you are explaining, go with the 12%. If they seem a bit more dense, give them the 6%. Its tough when people want black and white answers but when dealing with animals its a lot more grey.

 

[PetNcs]

IMHO There is a conceptual problem tight with your question. The answer is namely that we should not give a blank statement advice but we should care for people to understand what is actually happening.

Under certain circumstances it can be absolutely correct do you recommend only 6% under other circumstances it can be lethal, same for 12%

The basic issue is driven by physics. The intensity of light diminishes namely with the square of the distance from the source. So the UVI level in the doible the distance is four times less and vice versa if the distance is three times closer then the intensity is nine times bigger.

The Yemen chameleons are exposed while basking to relatively high levels of UVI but in fact they do not exceed the level of 5 to 7 despite of the fact that they can exceed 14 or even 17 in the middle of the day. The reason is that they do Not bask in the middle of the day but they only do in the early morning hours where the sun rays are still filtered by fog and in the late afternoon when the sun rays enter the atmosphere diagonally which reduces the UV I logically. The most of the day The Yemen chameleons sit deep in the bushes and experience UVI levels of maximum 1 to 2! The only exceptions are the testosterone driven dominant males that expose themselves even at
Midday to other dominant males from other trees but they do not Bask and they pay the tribute to their sexually driven behavior by dying young, Among other reasons because they are killed by the UV.
Bery similar situation is reue fir oanthers. But as they kive about 3000-5000ft
Lower than the Yemen chameleons, they experience even lower UVI levels.

So the only thing you need to take into consideration is that the normal gradient of UV that the chameleons need to get in the cage on those places where they can expose themselves to UV in the range of one to maximum five while five must be an extreme highest spot and not hier otherwise the UV starts to be dangerous.

So in the practice if you have a 2 m high enclosure and the chameleons cannot climb higher than 1 feet distance from the lamp you might use 12% because they will sit at UVI 5 to 7 which is OK and half meter lower they will have zero. If you put in such a cage a 6% bulb they will receive almost no UV. And I could generate many exaples like this.

do not give advice

make
People to UNDERSTAND

this is my message

In the case did you have someone that is not able to understand or it is a newbie for whom this complexity of information would be too much go safe

 

[jamest0o0]

I also have used 12% and 10.0. Totally agree with the above. If you have a densely planted enclosure, it helps a lot.

 

[skoram]

IMHO There is a conceptual problem tight with your question. The answer is namely that we should not give a blank statement advice but we should care for people to understand what is actually happening.

Under certain circumstances it can be absolutely correct do you recommend only 6% under other circumstances it can be lethal, same for 12%

The basic issue is driven by physics. The intensity of light diminishes namely with the square of the distance from the source. So the UVI level in the doible the distance is four times less and vice versa if the distance is three times closer then the intensity is nine times bigger.

The Yemen chameleons are exposed while basking to relatively high levels of UVI but in fact they do not exceed the level of 5 to 7 despite of the fact that they can exceed 14 or even 17 in the middle of the day. The reason is that they do Not bask in the middle of the day but they only do in the early morning hours where the sun rays are still filtered by fog and in the late afternoon when the sun rays enter the atmosphere diagonally which reduces the UV I logically. The most of the day The Yemen chameleons sit deep in the bushes and experience UVI levels of maximum 1 to 2! The only exceptions are the testosterone driven dominant males that expose themselves even at
Midday to other dominant males from other trees but they do not Bask and they pay the tribute to their sexually driven behavior by dying young, Among other reasons because they are killed by the UV.
Bery similar situation is reue fir oanthers. But as they kive about 3000-5000ft
Lower than the Yemen chameleons, they experience even lower UVI levels.

So the only thing you need to take into consideration is that the normal gradient of UV that the chameleons need to get in the cage on those places where they can expose themselves to UV in the range of one to maximum five while five must be an extreme highest spot and not hier otherwise the UV starts to be dangerous.

So in the practice if you have a 2 m high enclosure and the chameleons cannot climb higher than 1 feet distance from the lamp you might use 12% because they will sit at UVI 5 to 7 which is OK and half meter lower they will have zero. If you put in such a cage a 6% bulb they will receive almost no UV. And I could generate many exaples like this.

do not give advice

make
People to UNDERSTAND

this is my message

In the case did you have someone that is not able to understand or it is a newbie for whom this complexity of information would be too much go safe

I don't think she is advocating giving blanket advice. She asks what the circumstances might be under which we should suggest 10/12% over 5/6%.

I totally, utterly, fully agree that it is always better to help people understand the reasons behind why certain choices are made and have made some lengthy posts in these forums stating the same. Unfortunately, for whatever reasons some people just want answers, just want to be told what to do. This is the reason we have so many caresheets floating around.

 

[PetNcs]

she

From my side it was in no way criticism, it was a stance that is general

advice without understanding is a dead end... as we botb agree

 

[SourGrape4u]

I had a friend that got a young veiled and since his plants were not developed yet i suggested 5.0. I fully explained why about coverage and told him in 6 months to see where it is at to see if 10.0 might be better off if plants had good growth for him to take cover under.

 

[Beman]

Yeah so I do use a 12%, I have a solarmeter 6.5 as well. But I think the most important piece of the what bulb do I use dilemma is what type of fixture is being used.

I have a quad fixture that has a single reflector. I have to use a 12% in this fixture to get a 2-3 UVI at basking. When I was using a 6% in this fixture I could barely get a 1 at basking.

If your using a single bulb fixture you want a 5.0 or 6%. If one is using a quad with individual reflectors then they should use a 5.0 or 6% as well because each bulb has its own reflector.

But additionally how planted out your enclosure is impact your UVI levels as well. Along with what type of screen is the light going through?

The truth is there is no one answer for every set up. There are multiple variables.

I love love love Bill Strand's new site and this link particularly. https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-cage-set-up-replicating-the-sun/

 

[Gingero]

Okay guys -- So I'm pulling together some notes for a video about what UVB does a chameleon need based on what I know, my experiences, the discussion above, podcasts, and research. I know it's a beast of a video to take on, but I can't not try with so many new keepers getting compact UVB bulbs. I'm aware there is no cookie-cutter answer, so I'm doing my best to try provide as much info surrounding UVB to help educate new keepers.

Looking for either confirmation I've included the biggies or suggestions for things that need correcting or that I forgot to include. @cyberlocc @kinyonga @PetNcs @Brodybreaux25 @jannb

What is UVB?

• Ultraviolet rays emitted from the sun
• Stands for Ultraviolet B
• There are also UVA and UVC

Why do they need UVB?

• Needed for the formation of vitamin D3 in the skin of reptiles to allow them to absorb calcium from their food
• Works in harmony with their supplement schedule
• No UVB = MBD, deformation, and death

What kind of bulb?

• T5 HO linear UVB

What's wrong with compact UVB?

• Does not penetrate more than a few inches into the enclosure
• T5 HO penetrate much deeper to allow for proper absorption

What brand/strength?

• Reptisun 5.0 or 10.0
• Arcadia 6% or 12%

What do the numbers mean?

• Numbers correspond to the % of light that is UVB

Which strength is right for you?

There are a lot of variables and all I can do is provide guidelines. Continue to research and figure out what UVB is best for your chameleon. Just like heat, chameleons need a UVB gradient and need to be able to self-regulate their UVB exposure. Meaning they have times to have increased and decreased exposure.

When to choose a 5.0 or 6%

• Lightly planted
• Don't have a solar meter
• Single fixture
• Closer basking branches

When to choose a 10.0 or 12%

• Densely planted
• Have a solar meter
• Quad fixture
• Further basking branches

What happens if there is too much UVB?

• Humans will get sunburnt
• Chameleons will get long-term internal damage that is naked to the eye

What kind of fixture?

• T5 HO reflector hood
• Can impact what kind of bulb you get

What size bulb/fixture?

• At least the width of the enclosure
• The ends don't put out as much UVB
• Mine is 36" fixture 34" bulb for a 24" wide enclosure

How often to replace?

• Just because they turn on doesn't mean they give off enough UVB
• Every 6 months for Reptisun
• Every 12 months for Arcadia
• Or as needed with solar meter

Where to put the fixture?

• On the top and on the outside of the enclosure
• Make sure there is a gradient
• Make sure there is coverage

How long does UVB need to be on?

• On for 12 hours and off for 12 hours
• Can get automatic outlet timers

How much does it cost?

• Will depend what size you get
• Fixture: Around $55
• Bulb: Around $30

 

[SourGrape4u]

? nice!

 

[PetNcs]

It is all approximate
Yiu get the meaning theough plusminus and with unnecessafy mistakes and inaccuracies.

the definition of auavab is not correct, it is nit abour PENETRATION but about a ailable UVI, the finction of auav fir organism is more than just D3 and Ca metabolism etc etc.

i suggest not to improvise in this very jeabiky technical topic and wrote the full text and not only headlines.
I will fladly review the rext and help you tk polish it so that necessary info comes through and there are not unnecessary inacurracies.

frankly, itnis also not as you say: wothout UVB, rhere is ultimative methal scenariu... we did not have sourdes of auav fir dexades , though we kept and reproduced chameleons fir dexades in many generatios...

i also
Suggest not to stick with what is a ailable now only, every year airuation changes and the recommendation xan be done a bit
Mire general to elucidate the principles more than a concrete advice that might be outdates in terms if brands and thoes just in few mi ths from now

 

[Gingero]

Can you elaborate on your definition of UVB? "about available UVI" is unclear for me.

More than happy to make updated videos in the future.

 

[PetNcs]

UV is a part electromagentic rays (light, invisible f humans) defined by vawelength from-to
Within UV, vawelength from xxxx to xxxx are called UVa, from-to UVB and from-to UVC

The only reallistically measureable value defining the “strength” of UV, is the UVI (UV index) and lroviding areas with specific UVI is essential for chameleons in the cage. They must not be exposed to too high UVI (damage of.......) and if out of reach of UV (too low UVI), itnis ineffeicient fir the purpose we talk about.
It should be made clear to the listener that the intensity of light diminishes with the square of the distance from the source it means if for instance UVI one is measured at 1 feet from the lamp at the distance of 2 feet the UV I will be four times less it means 0.25 UVI which is almost undetectable.
Moreover it should be understood that normal glass shields UVI by almost 100% and putting the UV source above the screen cage still means that upto about 30% of the UV is absorbed by the mesh

 

[jamest0o0]

Just a thought, but maybe there is ONE answer for UVB? I'm not saying I'm certain about this, but wouldn't there be an optimal layout for a panther/veiled/etc based on where they would naturally be found in the wild(not where they are forced to be due to deforestation, but where they originally were). Hypothetically, let's say Panthers like open spaces with a shady spot or two to escape into in the wild. Shouldn't our cages be like that and not densely planted?

I'm in no way saying I'm right and have used the 12% myself, so not criticizing anyone!

 

[PetNcs]

I am vwry close to say Yes! Just nit too ageee with rhe open soaces as if you oay rhe ffort, you find them mainly on SHADY places under/in a canopy or in a bush
too densely planred cages are a mistake

 

[Meerkat]

Yeah so I do use a 12%, I have a solarmeter 6.5 as well. But I think the most important piece of the what bulb do I use dilemma is what type of fixture is being used.

I have a quad fixture that has a single reflector. I have to use a 12% in this fixture to get a 2-3 UVI at basking. When I was using a 6% in this fixture I could barely get a 1 at basking.

If your using a single bulb fixture you want a 5.0 or 6%. If one is using a quad with individual reflectors then they should use a 5.0 or 6% as well because each bulb has its own reflector.

But additionally how planted out your enclosure is impact your UVI levels as well. Along with what type of screen is the light going through?

The truth is there is no one answer for every set up. There are multiple variables.

I love love love Bill Strand's new site and this link particularly. https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-cage-set-up-replicating-the-sun/

I have the exact same set up. Followed Bill Strands guide for the quad set up. Curious as to how far down your basking branch is from the cage top?

 

[Beman]

I have the exact same set up. Followed Bill Strands guide for the quad set up. Curious as to how far down your basking branch is from the cage top?

Mine is 7-8 inches with the branch just slightly tilted at an angle. I get a 2.3-3 UVI at the top of his back. My UVB bulb is positioned outside edge farthest away from front of cage so it runs down the middle of the cage. Your UVI numbers will change depending on position in fixture. I replicated his exactly then got my solarmeter and it was perfect.

 

[Meerkat]

Mine is 7-8 inches with the branch just slightly tilted at an angle. I get a 2.3-3 UVI at the top of his back. My UVB bulb is positioned outside edge farthest away from front of cage so it runs down the middle of the cage. Your UVI numbers will change depending on position in fixture. I replicated his exactly then got my solarmeter and it was perfect.

How does that look? Followed instructions off his site best i could without a solar meter. an its directly under the light. The back slot closest to heat lamp.