Yoshi passed, Pez lives on

[tdeamicis]

Good Morning everyone,

We woke up today to find our Yoshi laying on the ground.
She was pale, eyes were dark and it looked like she had a dark spot (bruise like if you will) on her side.
We rushed her to the emergency vet but sadly, she did not make it.
She was born mid-November, and we got her when she was 6 weeks old.
She loved being held, loved being in her cage, loved coming out and going to her tree (indoor ficus type tree), and loved being pet on her chin and back.

Once we got back from the vet, we took a closer look at the cage, and there were places that looked like blood on the ivy leaves below where she slept last night.
They dripped down the ivy leaves and had a little pool of blood in the dirt of the ivy plant.
I ended up finding a little worm/bug/thing on the blood, but I wonder if that was from the dirt...
It seemed a little big to be a parasite... That's why I think it was just something else unrelated, but I mention it because I am no expert and it might matter.


We have another chameleon that was from the same litter she was, and I want to ensure that we are doing all that we can for her.
Pez looks healthy, but I just want to make sure we do everything we can for her as well.
Pez doesn't like being pet as much, so when she communicates no (puff up, etc), we give her her space.
She has times that we open the cage and she almost runs out, so we try to get her out and put her on the tree (indoor ficus type tree).

We have a large cage that we build out of wood, it is about 5 feet wide, 2 feet deep, and about 6 feet tall.
Then we have a divider in the middle to split the cage in two so the girls would be separate.
It is a bioactive cage, full of good chameleon dirt/isopods/springtails.
They have many plants, pothos/ivy, boston ferns, bromeliads.
We mist with a spray bottle in the morning and in the evening, mostly in the morning.
Yoshi did a strike on the crickets, so we moved to dubai roaches and she won't eat those either.
We were feeding her superworms lately as she was refusing the crickets/roaches, even starting refusing a horn worm last week (those are rare though, so we just though maybe she didn't want it).
Pez eats the dubai roaches and superworms, and occasionally the wax worms and hornworms as treats/after laying clutch of eggs.
We dust the feeders with the calcium powder (Zoo Med ReptiCalcium with D3).
We use filtered water to water the chameleons and the plants.
We have a Zoo Med ReptiSun T5 hood over the cage, with a Zoo Med ReptiSun 10.0 UVB T5HO 54W 46" bulb.
This allows us to have one UVB light over both sides of the cage.
We also have the white lights that stay on the longest.
I can't find the exact name of that bulb, I am not seeing the package right now.
Each of the sides have a white bulb over them. Only the UVB light is shared right now.


I included some pictures:
One picture she was brightly colored on the 21st

Two images on the 22nd show how she was starting to seem a little skinny.

These two images I took on the 26th, was wondering about her foot, if she hurt it or if she was just hanging out and being silly.

I took these pictures last night, was wondering why she likes that top spot so much, wondering if it was hurting her to squish in there. Heat lamp was just being turned off then, and I assumed she was closing her eyes since she was tired/it was late.

Found her today on the bottom of the cage, this was the spot she was sleeping in last night

This is her side of the cage:

I can only attach 10 images, so I will reply and post the rest.

 

[tdeamicis]

Here are some more images:

Here are some of the branches below where she slept:

Here is her immediately as we were getting her in the car to take her to the emergency vet:

Here is her after they said she was gone:

Here is her a few hours later, the spots are changing, I am not sure if that means anything or not...

 

[Beman]

While I do not have an exact idea what could have happened... What I see in the pics....

Pics on the 21st are showing possible gulular edema. Unless she was just puffing up it looks like she was holding fluid between her front legs up her throat area.

Now then if you go to the pics from the 26th. You can kinda see her vent area. It looks swollen and dry.
Then the pics from last night. The vent is not right. The flap is back rather then folded over and it looks almost like a prolapse starting... But not 100% sure because I am looking at it from the side.

Bruise could very well be from falling to the bottom of the cage. I do not see any sign of bruising in the pics you took the night before.

I am so sorry for your loss.

 

[Flick boy]

Hi sorry for your lose. Do you have pictures of your other cham . Do you have pictures of your lights .also are you only using calcium +d3 ?

 

[tdeamicis]

Thank you Beman. She was puffing up a little that night, so I don't THINK it was edema, but I don't know that for sure obviously...
I am seeing that a little also about the swollen/dry vent, I didn't think much of it at first, but I think that was a big sign there...
No, definitely no bruising the night before, I would imagine it was from the fall, but figured I would mention it just in case.
I was wondering if the black bruises were due to an impaction or something like that.

I will get pictures Flick Boy. Was trying to grab all information and definitely feeling a little overwhelmed right now...

 

[CasqueAbove]

In the first pics she looks gravid. Did she have a lay bin? My guess would be that this could be a case of egg bound. The blood would be from essentially a rupture from not being able to pass the eggs. I would suggest filling out the how to ask for help form for your other cham as there seem too be some husbandry issues as well.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

 

[tdeamicis]

Here are the lights:

Here is Pez:
She definitely puffed up in the last image from today.
We haven't watered her yet today, I am sure she is wondering what is going on.
Busy morning to say the least...

 

[tdeamicis]

In the first pics she looks gravid. Did she have a lay bin? My guess would be that this could be a case of egg bound. The blood would be from essentially a rupture from not being able to pass the eggs. I would suggest filling out the how to ask for help form for your other cham as there seem too be some husbandry issues as well.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

She has a bioactive cage, so the whole ground is her lay bin. Pez laid eggs a couple weeks ago, and so we have the same set up for Yoshi as well. It looked like she dug on it a little, but nothing since then. Pez was digging like crazy, digging under the lay bin, so then I just added a little more dirt and allowed her to lay in the cage, and that went very well. In the images I posted above of Pez, the images where she was dark was right after she laid her eggs and had climbed back up. We then gave her some good food and water to help her recover.

 

[tdeamicis]

After realizing the lay bin was causing her stress, and she wanted to dig below it, we set up the dirt below, removed the lay bin. After Pez lay eggs successfully, we set up Yoshi's side the same way, adding some more dirt on one wall of her cage.

 

[Beman]

Pez may have had some retained eggs. Or there was something that went wrong when she laid causing issues to the vent. I think it is definitely all connected. How many eggs did she lay?

 

[CasqueAbove]

After realizing the lay bin was causing her stress, and she wanted to dig below it, we set up the dirt below, removed the lay bin. After Pez lay eggs successfully, we set up Yoshi's side the same way, adding some more dirt on one wall of her cage.

As @Beman said their seems to be a connection. Also if you look at the dark spots it is all where her eggs would be. It does sound like you have things set up well, but things can still go wrong even in the best care. I would have to assume like any female that gives birth, there are risks. It is hard on the body.

 

[tdeamicis]

Pez is a different chameleon. She laid successfully.

Yoshi hasn't laid eggs, I don't feel eggs inside her, but she is the one that passed this morning.

 

[Beman]

Pez is a different chameleon. She laid successfully.

Yoshi hasn't laid eggs, I don't feel eggs inside her, but she is the one that passed this morning.

Ok sorry I got confused. This is the problem with mentioning two in one thread lol.

I am still thinking prolapse of some sort. When did she lay last?

 

[tdeamicis]

Yoshi has never laid yet. I was expecting it soon, but she was never as "fat" as Pez....

And no worries, I am trying to keep it clear, but when pictures of the other one were requested, it definitely gets more confusing.

 

[Flick boy]

@tdeamicis if you are only using calcium +d3 this is to much . You will want to use calcium phosphorus free no d3 every feed then twice a month use say reptivite +d3say the first and the 15th. Also to much food and high temperatures will make your girl produce more eggs I feed my girl every other day only 3 to 5 feeders. You will also want to change your red bulbs these can damage your girls eyes white only Do you have a uvb light? You will want either a reptisun 5%or an arcadia 6% I prefer arcadia these are both long fluorescent to provide the proper uvb.

 

[tdeamicis]

@tdeamicis if you are only using calcium +d3 this is to much . You will want to use calcium phosphorus free no d3 every feed then twice a month use say reptivite +d3say the first and the 15th. Also to much food and high temperatures will make your girl produce more eggs I feed my girl every other day only 3 to 5 feeders. You will also want to change your red bulbs these can your girls eyes . Do you have a uvb light? You will want either a reptisun 5%or an arcadia 6% I prefer arcadia these are both long fluorescent to provide the proper uvb.

good to know about the calcium + d3 not being good for everyday.
We added the red bulb for heat, but good to know that isn't good.

Pez mostly eats every two days, about 3-5 feeders as well.
The hood pictured above has the UVB light, reptisun 10.0 UVB.