Young panther chameleon doesn't seem to be growing

[ngeary999]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - This is Napoleon! He's a male Nosey Be panther chameleon. Hatched October or November (so approximately 5 months old) and has been in my care since February 12.
• Handling - Never
• Feeding - For the first six weeks I only fed him calcium-dusted crickets. Average of 10-12 small-medium crickets per day, sometimes up to 20. When I put more than 12 crickets in his feeding cup there would sometimes be dead crickets left over at the end of the day. I usually feed him 6-7 days per week. Starting a week ago I also added BSFL and dubia roaches and he seems to enjoy those. He's great at hunting them down and eating them. The crickets (and now roaches) are fed mostly Repashy Bug Burger. The crickets also get spinach frequently. The insects have access to food almost 24/7 so I can't really guarantee that they're eating an hour or two before Napoleon eats them. I have a log of exactly what Napoleon has eaten every day since I got him if people want more details.
• Supplements - Dusting crickets with Repashy Calcium Plus at every feeding. Haven't been dusting BSFL or dubia roaches.
• Watering - Misting with a MistKing for 10 minutes first thing in the morning then a few more times for a few minutes each day. I occasionally see him drink water droplets.
• Fecal Description - Poop is half white and half dark. Looks like a reasonable size compared to his body. I don't record when he poops so I'm not sure about frequency. I have never tested for parasites.
• History - For the first four weeks that I owned him he lived with just me. I would see him in the morning and at night and he'd be alone all day. Then I moved across town and now there is me, another person, and a cat in the apartment. Due to the quarantine we are now home all day. Napoleon is in the office where I do work so he sees the back of my head a lot now. The cat has meowed at him once or twice but generally just sits around the house and not too close to Napoleon. I think he fell once a few days ago. I heard a faint noise and noticed him on the screen floor of the cage. He climbed up a vine right away and hasn't shown any signs of injury.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Dragon Strand tall cage. Screen with PVC back panel. 24" x 24" x 48".
• Lighting - 75W Zoo Med basking bulb, T5 5.0 HO UVB bulb, 45W LED bulb. The basking bulb is a few inches above the screen. All are on from 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM every day.
• Temperature - I have a temperature/hygrometer that is about a foot below the top of the cage and away from direct mist. It usually reads 72-80 F during the day and 64-72 at night.
• Humidity - Hygrometer usually reads somewhere between 20-50% humidity. I mist for about 15-20 minutes total throughout the day and not all all overnight.
• Plants - Live pothos and croton in hanging pots. Fake leaves on the back wall. Plenty of branches and fake vines.
• Placement - Cage is in the office on top of a table. The top of the cage is about 7' above floor level. The cage is next to a window that is usually open during the day. Lately I have been working at my desk near the cage most of the day, but there isn't much commotion in the room.
• Location - Los Angeles, CA.

Current Problem - Napoleon has not grown any noticeable amount since I've had him. Also, some days he is very dark and just hides in the fake leaves all day, even when I close the door and leave him alone for several hours.

Is there anything I should be doing differently to help him? His behavior seems fine and I don't see anything wrong with him but I don't know if it's a bad sign that a young panther hasn't grown in 7 weeks.

The photos attached are in chronological order and the file names have the dates. As you can see, he is about the same size on March 31 as he was on February 12.

Thanks in advance for any input! I've already learned a ton from this web site and appreciate everybody sharing all the knowledge

 

[SourGrape4u]

No spinach!. Its has stuff to stop vitamin D3 or calcium from doing what it needs to.

 

[Clayton0520]

I’m no expert but everything you are doing sounds perfect to me, both of my panthers were a slow start it seemed like they where never gonna grow and then next thing I knew they where grown lol. I wouldn’t worry to much at this point if he’s eating and pooping good. I would probably do a fecal examination just to make sure he doesn’t have any parasites. Other than that keep up the good work and enjoy your little guy.

 

[ngeary999]

No spinach!. Its has stuff to stop vitamin D3 or calcium from doing what it needs to.

Interesting! Good to know. I'll probably just do 100% bug burger for the crickets and roaches then.

 

[ngeary999]

I’m no expert but everything you are doing sounds perfect to me, both of my panthers were a slow start it seemed like they where never gonna grow and then next thing I knew they where grown lol. I wouldn’t worry to much at this point if he’s eating and pooping good. I would probably do a fecal examination just to make sure he doesn’t have any parasites. Other than that keep up the good work and enjoy your little guy.

Thank you! I figured he might just hit a late growth spurt but still wanted to know if there's anything I should be changing. The insect diet sounds like a good start and I'm reading up on the chameleon poop threads now.

 

[jannb]

I highly recommend a fecal to check for parasites. Parasites can keep them from growing especially Cociddia. You have a really good chameleon vet just a bit south of you.
Dr. Tom Greek

 

[ngeary999]

I highly recommend a fecal to check for parasites. Parasites can keep them from growing especially Cociddia. You have a really good chameleon vet just a bit south of you.
Dr. Tom Greek

Ok, I'll try to get a fecal exam done soon. It would be nice to confirm one way or another. Thanks for your input.

 

[kinyonga]

What vitamin A is found in the bug burger? Is it beta carotene/prOformed or retinol/retinyl/retinal/prEformed?
Is there D3 in it?

I feed/gutload crickets with dandelion greens, collards, kale, endive, mustard greens, escarole, squash, zucchini, carrots, sweet potato, sweet red pepper and a bit of berries, melon, pears, apples, papaya, mango, etc.

 

[ngeary999]

What vitamin A is found in the bug burger? Is it beta carotene/prOformed or retinol/retinyl/retinal/prEformed?
Is there D3 in it?

I feed/gutload crickets with dandelion greens, collards, kale, endive, mustard greens, escarole, squash, zucchini, carrots, sweet potato, sweet red pepper and a bit of berries, melon, pears, apples, papaya, mango, etc.

The ingredients say Vitamin A supplement and beta carotene.

I have given them carrots too. I usually have sweet potato, kale, and apples so I can mix those in also.

 

[kinyonga]

Vitamin A plays a part in growth...it's not certain whether chameleons can convert beta carotene or not so I thought it might be playing a part but if it says vitamin A chances are there's some prEformed in there that the chameleon doesn't have to convert...so that shouldn't be the reason.

I think it's important to feed/gutload the insects well because you want them to be healthy too. Like they say....you are what you eat!

Could be parasites like @jannb suggested or maybe he's just a slow grower. At that age you can feed him as much as he will eat at each feeding as long as you don't let him get fat. It's almost time to start to feed him every second day instead of every day too.

How heavily are you dusting the crickets with the calcium?
Is there D3 in the bug burger?

 

[ngeary999]

Vitamin A plays a part in growth...it's not certain whether chameleons can convert beta carotene or not so I thought it might be playing a part but if it says vitamin A chances are there's some prEformed in there that the chameleon doesn't have to convert...so that shouldn't be the reason.

I think it's important to feed/gutload the insects well because you want them to be healthy too. Like they say....you are what you eat!

Could be parasites like @jannb suggested or maybe he's just a slow grower. At that age you can feed him as much as he will eat at each feeding as long as you don't let him get fat. It's almost time to start to feed him every second day instead of every day too.

How heavily are you dusting the crickets with the calcium?
Is there D3 in the bug burger?

Yeah I'll get the fecal exam done soon to check for parasites.

I dust the crickets pretty heavily with calcium, sometimes to the point that they're completely white and sometimes a little less.

The bug burger does have vitamin D3 added.

 

[jannb]

Yeah I'll get the fecal exam done soon to check for parasites.

I dust the crickets pretty heavily with calcium, sometimes to the point that they're completely white and sometimes a little less.

The bug burger does have vitamin D3 added.

You should lightly dust the feeders and don’t make them look like ghost. Too much supplements is just as bad if not worse than not enough.

 

[ngeary999]

You should lightly dust the feeders and don’t make them look like ghost. Too much supplements is just as bad if not worse than not enough.

Ok, noted! Right now I'm rotating through crickets, dubia roaches, and BSFL. I think I'll lightly dust the crickets and feed the roaches and BSFL as-is.

 

[ngeary999]

I took Napoleon to Dr. Greek and Associates yesterday morning for an exam and fecal test. The test was negative for parasites and Dr. Moore gave Napoleon a clean bill of health! She thinks he might always be smaller than the average panther but nothing to worry about.

 

[kinyonga]

Good to know the vet didn't see parasites...sometimes they don't show up with just one test...if the parasites aren't shedding at the time they may not show up. You might need another test in a couple of weeks to be sure.

Just let us know if he still doesn't grow much if you are concerned about it.

 

[ngeary999]

Posting an update here. Napoleon started to grow pretty rapidly after these posts. He was 7 grams in early April, then 30 grams by late June, and he is very much a full-sized chameleon now. His diet has been roughly 50% dubia roaches and 50% black soldier fly larvae for the last 10 months.