4 Month old veiled cham no appettite since ive had him

emmadavies

emmadavies

New Member
Hi guys, wondering if anyone has ever came across the problem of their cham not having a great appettite at all. Ive had him for just over a month. He has never been a big eater. Ive read other posts where babies would eat around 15 crix a day. Im lucky if he eats 3. when i got him i tried feeding him from a bowl. it worked for a while but then he became disinterested so i tried letting the crix loose in his cage for him to free hunt them. Again i only ever saw him catching one every so often...but he was pooping quite a bit so i was assuming he was catching more...but then i was also lifting out quite a few dead crix which had obv been in his enclosure for a while and had died due to no food for them (they r gutloaded and dusted before going in). and theres still a few running about his cage which he hasnt caught yet. it was really concerning me, so i took him out last nite and tried to feed him from a big bowl again (he hates cup feeding). he attempted to catch one straight away but missed it around 6 times until eventually he caught another one. his eyes are both open and he has both eyes locked onto the cric that he wants so i dont understand why he is missing it...maybe thats why he cant catch any in his enclosure??? but once he caught one he had no interest in anymore (i have also tried changing his food, thinking he was bored of the crix, i tried meal worms, just to try and get him to eat something, and wax worms)...i tried for over half an hr. i will try him again tonight but if he hasnt improved in the next day or two im going to bring him to the vets. Oh i have also seen him drink from the dripper so i no he isnt dehydrated. I was just wonderig if anyone else has experinced this. ive posted here before and filled out that form and everything is sitting perfect, so just dont understand. Thanks in advance

loki 11.jpg
loki 12.jpg
 
Sorry your cham is having problems---poor little guy!
He actually seems to be having at least 2 problems.
The first that you noticed is poor appetite. The second is poor aim/poor tongue control.
If you've changed out the 10.0 bulb for a 5.0 and found that his eye troubles went away, then a few possibilities come to mind.
If you simply omitted the UVB bulb , then MBD would be an obvious issue.
Chameleons depend upon sharpshooter accuracy with their tongues for survival in the wild.
He certainly is having accuracy problems which may have a single cause or may be due to multiple causes.
There is a brief but informative write-up by Sandrachameleon about tongue troubles here https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/232-tongue-troubles.html and my thoughts on your cham's issues are below:

First is that he may have an eyesight problem. Perhaps the eye infection or too concentrated UVB caused corneal scarring so his vision is not clear.
Second possible cause is a nutritional deficiency, which also can affect appetite. Nutritional deficiencies are a rather common problem.
Powders fall off or lose effectiveness over time.
Feeders fed poor diets lack many nutrients, etc.
Feeders that live unnoticed for weeks in the enclosure without having food aren't going to provide much in the way of nutrition, aside from giving a calorie or two.
Third is parasites, which rob the body of nutrients and can cause problems which include as loss of appetite, malnutrition, weight loss and dehydration as well as much worse things.
Last is dehydration, which can causes discoordination or at the very least causes a dry tongue which won't stick to the prey items.

My suspicion is that it's a combination of 2 or 3 of these things.

He does look thin.
Your post indicates that he may hay been feeding primarily on undusted crickets. They were dusted when you put them in with him, but he may have only eaten them much later or even days later, since you're still finding plenty of hidden crickets in his enclosure.

I'm not sure what types of feeder insects you can buy in Belfast. If you know of a vet who has experience with chameleons then that would be a good idea.
Your cham may have been wild caught and wild caught chams, as a general rule, harbor internal parasites.
Particularly when the cham gets stressed (by being caught, transported, etc.) the parasites can increase in number and cause outward symptoms in addition to the damage they're doing within.
A fresh fecal sample if possible to get, will enable the vet to analyze it for evidence of parasites.

I would certainly try again to switch him to slower moving, nutrient packed feeders such as Silkworms and Calciworms/Phoenixworms/Black Soldier Fly larvae. Other feeders he may find interesting would include Isopods (called woodlice in Europe, if I'm not mistaken) but you'd want to raise those yourself because they tend to accumulate heavy metals and other undesirable things in the wild.
Some people use wildcaught insects, captured in a fine net from fields or meadows that are known to be free of pesticides.
If you're in the city, that isn't likely, though.

You currently have about 15 hours of sunlight daily so if he has a screened cage, he may enjoy some outdoor basking time in it, if temperatures permit.

Please let us know what the vet finds wrong.
 
Lovereps said:
Sorry your cham is having problems---poor little guy!
He actually seems to be having at least 2 problems.
The first that you noticed is poor appetite. The second is poor aim/poor tongue control.
If you've changed out the 10.0 bulb for a 5.0 and found that his eye troubles went away, then a few possibilities come to mind.
If you simply omitted the UVB bulb , then MBD would be an obvious issue.
Chameleons depend upon sharpshooter accuracy with their tongues for survival in the wild.
He certainly is having accuracy problems which may have a single cause or may be due to multiple causes.
There is a brief but informative write-up by Sandrachameleon about tongue troubles here https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/232-tongue-troubles.html and my thoughts on your cham's issues are below:

First is that he may have an eyesight problem. Perhaps the eye infection or too concentrated UVB caused corneal scarring so his vision is not clear.
Second possible cause is a nutritional deficiency, which also can affect appetite. Nutritional deficiencies are a rather common problem.
Powders fall off or lose effectiveness over time.
Feeders fed poor diets lack many nutrients, etc.
Feeders that live unnoticed for weeks in the enclosure without having food aren't going to provide much in the way of nutrition, aside from giving a calorie or two.
Third is parasites, which rob the body of nutrients and can cause problems which include as loss of appetite, malnutrition, weight loss and dehydration as well as much worse things.
Last is dehydration, which can causes discoordination or at the very least causes a dry tongue which won't stick to the prey items.

My suspicion is that it's a combination of 2 or 3 of these things.

He does look thin.
Your post indicates that he may hay been feeding primarily on undusted crickets. They were dusted when you put them in with him, but he may have only eaten them much later or even days later, since you're still finding plenty of hidden crickets in his enclosure.

I'm not sure what types of feeder insects you can buy in Belfast. If you know of a vet who has experience with chameleons then that would be a good idea.
Your cham may have been wild caught and wild caught chams, as a general rule, harbor internal parasites.
Particularly when the cham gets stressed (by being caught, transported, etc.) the parasites can increase in number and cause outward symptoms in addition to the damage they're doing within.
A fresh fecal sample if possible to get, will enable the vet to analyze it for evidence of parasites.

I would certainly try again to switch him to slower moving, nutrient packed feeders such as Silkworms and Calciworms/Phoenixworms/Black Soldier Fly larvae. Other feeders he may find interesting would include Isopods (called woodlice in Europe, if I'm not mistaken) but you'd want to raise those yourself because they tend to accumulate heavy metals and other undesirable things in the wild.
Some people use wildcaught insects, captured in a fine net from fields or meadows that are known to be free of pesticides.
If you're in the city, that isn't likely, though.

You currently have about 15 hours of sunlight daily so if he has a screened cage, he may enjoy some outdoor basking time in it, if temperatures permit.

Please let us know what the vet finds wrong.
Click to expand...

Thanks for replying. Im actaully just waiting on a phone call from the vet this minute so hopefully he will have some answers.

He did have an eye problem for a bit when i first got him as i had a coil uvb bulb in with him but that has now been replaced with the tube uvb which sits on top and his eyes are back to normal and he wasnt missing any crickets around that time or long after. i have only really just noticed it yesterday.
The feeders (small crickets) are gut loaded with a high calcium, high protein dry diet and this is replaced every other day. they also have a gel based water concentrate to hydrate with. what i have done now is put a small amount of gut loader into his cage for the crickets so they have something to eat if they are in there a few days. it is also out of reach from the cham. its very hard to get other feeders such as silk worms here. i will have to order them from the mainland uk as northern ireland only seem to concentrate on crickets, wax worms, meal worms, hoopers, locusts and dubai roaches. (i have already tried him with wax worms and meal worms and had no success, and the roaches, hoopers and locusts are all huge)
Ive seen that he drinks straight from the dripper so i dont think he is dehydrated. last i saw him drink was last night and he also gets sprayed 3 times a day.
i honestly dont think he was wild caught as we dont have wild chams in the uk and he wouldve been very young to have been shipped over. i honestly think i have bought him ill as he has been like this since ive had him.
Also to get him outside in this country is almost impossible due to the weather. our weather would never reach the temp that he would need therefore i dont think it would do him any good as he would just get cold.
Will keep you updated :) Thanks again
 
View attachment 100611
They can easily get discouraged with poor aim and tongue control. My Nosy Be who damaged his tongue as a youngster being shipped to me, regained its use, but still chooses to manually hunt over a year later. He is completely heathy though, so cheer up. He can adapt and help himself, if this is the cause. I have heard and seen it done many times before. I did not see any mention of a vet in the previous postings. Is there a reptile vet there ?
 
Last edited:
emmadavies said:
.
The feeders (small crickets) are gut loaded with a high calcium, high protein dry diet and this is replaced every other day. they also have a gel based water concentrate to hydrate with. what i have done now is put a small amount of gut loader into his cage for the crickets so they have something to eat if they are in there a few days.
Click to expand...
High calcium is good, high protein may be bad for chameleon kidneys
You have to be careful with gutloads. I don't know which specific gutload you're using but many commercial gutloads are great for the crickets but not so good for the chams . They may contain calcium and plenty of proteins for the crickets but little else in the way of vitamins and minerals.
You can easily and inexpensively make your own gutloads by using scraps leftover when preparing vegetables for your family to eat.
You can read more here https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html
emmadavies said:
.I honestly dont think he was wild caught as we dont have wild chams in the uk and he wouldve been very young to have been shipped over. i honestly think i have bought him ill as he has been like this since ive had him.
Click to expand...
Chameleons aren't native to the US either--most species are from Africa and the middle east. (Though there are a couple of species that escaped captivity and now reside in areas of Florida and Hawaii.)
Wild caught chameleons are still imported to Europe and the US--but you're much closer to Africa than we are.
Even so, it is has been said that can chameleons acquire parasites from commercial feeders.
emmadavies said:
Also to get him outside in this country is almost impossible due to the weather. our weather would never reach the temp that he would need therefore i dont think it would do him any good as he would just get cold.
Will keep you updated :) Thanks again
Click to expand...

Sorry,I didn't realize that temps are so cool there.
I'm in NY, which is not a "hot" part of the US and presently it is 81 degrees F/ 27 Celsius.

As Junglefries said, chams can easily get discouraged with poor aim and tongue control and just give up on eating.
Perhaps if you hold the feeders closer to him he will make the effort and possibly succeed.

Hopefully, your vet sorts it out.

Please keep us up to date.
 
I use pro rep bug grub. Is this ok as a gut loader? We would be lucky if a really good day here reachs 24celsius. But more often it's low 20's or below. Vet said to try a few things to make him more comfortable in his cage so will try his advice for a few days to see if anything changes, if not then I'll bring him to the vet who is very local lucky enough.
Thanks again :) and fingers crossed
 
You're very welcome. I hope that with a few changes, he improves.
I am not an expert on nutrition but the Bug Grub doesn't appear to be very nutritious.
If you added some fresh veggie scraps each day to the cricket bin it would be an improvement.

Pro-Rep's own description of it is this, with emphasis added by me '"ProRep Bug Grub is a complete dry diet, high in calcium and protein, designed for the breeding and maintenance of all livefood insects."
A further look reveals the nutrient levels :
Protein 16%, Oil B 4.5%, Fibre 17.2%, Ash 11%,

Moisture 13.8%, Magnesium 0.3%, Vitamin A

5000iu/kg, Vitamin D3 500iu/kg, Vitamin E 20iu/kg,

Selenium 0.05mg/kg, Copper 30mg/kg.

If that is all the nutrition it provides, it doesn't seem like very much nutrition at all.
It has 3 vitamins (A,D and E) and 1 mineral (Magnesium) and 2 trace elements (Selenium and Copper)

Odd that the list fails to include calcium yet they claim that it is high in calcium and it seems like a lot of Vitamins D and A, of which too much isn't good for chams

Sandrachameleon knows far more about the specifics of cham nutrition, particularly gutloading, than I do.
I would hope that Sandrachameleon sees this and replies.
If not, you can send her a PM and I'm sure she will give you her opinion.
 
Do you know what get ate before you got him? Most uk shops feed locust, near me anyway. Mine will maybe only eat crickets one day and isn't that keen on them. His favourites are locusts, calci worms, silkworms. The locust I can get locally aswell as online. The worms I get online. Online do various sizes.
Or blue bottle flies you can get online, you get the casters and hatch them yourself. Chams go mad for flies. Kath.
 
When I got him the shop owner gave me a pile of crickets and meal worms and never mentioned that he was getting anything else. I found a website that sells silk worms which I might order from. What site do u get your locusts and calci worms from? Just scared incase there's something else underlying that I'm missing. I'm thinking I'll prob just take him to the vet in the next day or two just to be on the safe side
 
I had to force feed him one small cricket this morning so i phoned the vets this morning and i am taking him first thing tomorrow morning so hopefully he will get sorted soon but will keep you all updated. I also had a look online kath44 to see where i could get a more varied diet and a found a site called silkwormstore.co.uk. Have you ever used this company before and would you recommend it? i can get all i need from here. Many thanks again :)
 
As undesirable as it sounds, if he does poop today, you should wrap it loosely in plastic wrap or put it in a plastic bag (or two) and refrigerate it, so the vet can analyze it.
Don't freeze it as that will destroy its ability to be examined for evidence of parasites---which may very well be the root of your cham's troubles.
If he makes a fresh poop tomorrow, you can bring that, too, marking which is freshest, if the vet only wants to check 1-- or just bring the freshest sample.
Best of luck at the vet visit.
Hope you'll keep us up to date.
 
Is there any chance he just doesn't like crickets? I was able to get another one into him this evening which he swallowed. Then tried to give him another after a while and he just spat it out. This has happened twice tonight. I'll have a check in his cage in the morning to see any fresh poop. Yeah I'll keep u posted about the vets tomorrow. Thanks so much for ur advice everyone
 
I just watched him going to the toilet, thinking he was going to do a poop and four big drops of clear with a speck of white liquid came out? I'm assuming this isn't normal?
 
And I've just witnessed him throwing up!!! So glad we r going to the vets first thing. Poor wee man isn't well at all :(
 
It sounds like the first time, he only excreted a urate. I would collect it and take it to the vet just in case he can do an analysis of it.
Vomiting often indicates an intestinal blockage and/or parasites.
Either way, it's a very good thing he is scheduled for a vet visit.
 
Chameleons need to be really warm in order for them to want to eat ! So make sure it's at least 90F in the tank. Speaking from experience with our female, as soon as we put a higher temp lamp she ate wonderfully :)
Hope all is well with your lil guy.
 
Took him to the vets where he stayed all day. vet said it wasnt MBD and my husbandry was spot on. said it wasnt a blockage, no eye problems. said he was a bit dehydrated and gave him a wormer. he couldnt take blood samples as he was just too small. vet said he didnt see it necessary for him to stay over night and didnt really have an answer to why he wasnt eating much apart from stating 'this is the reason why females lay so many eggs...coz 90% of them dont survive!' and suggested he had problems from when he was hatched and just sent him home with reptiboost to soak him in. but unfortunately he didnt make it through the night. totally gutted :(
 
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