A few questions from a new veiled chameleon owner

[Charms]

Hi everyone!
I am a first time VEILED chameleon owner. I've got a few miscellaneous questions as my wife and I finish setting up the terrarium:

• I have purchased a simple thermometer and hygrometer that are battery-powered and attach to the glass wall of the terrarium. Are these sufficient, or should we get the probe hygrometer / infrared temp gun recommended in the "Veiled Chameleon Owner's Manual" by Jonathan Durham?
• Should I be using spring water or distilled water for misting? I've heard arguments for both.
• How often do you mist your enclosure manually (for veiled chameleons specifically)? I've read competing hypotheses on how humid they really need it to be. One of my books says the enclosure needs to be dripping wet multiple times a day. The other says veiled chameleons prefer less humidity than panthers and Jackson's because they come from semi-arid mountain regions of Yemen.
• Which cleaning product(s) do you recommend for cleaning the enclosure?

Thank you!

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Hopefully I’ll be able to answer your questions well.
It’s best to use at least a thermometer/hygrometer with a probe end which is used to measure basking temps. Many of us also use the temp guns too, just to double check.
I’m afraid I have to admit I haven’t read that or many books on chameleon care. I’ve gotten the bulk of my learning and husbandry from here. I do recommend highly https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/ or Neptune the Chameleon on YouTube for the most correct and up to date keeping and husbandry practices.
I use reverse osmosis water with my misting system (Mist King), but before I switched to that, I did use distilled to avoid mineral build up. If hand misting, either is fine.
It’s best to mist for at least 2 minutes, right before lights go on and off. If needed, you can either add a brief 1 minute misting during the day or add a dripper for 15-20 minutes. The enclosure needs to be able to dry out. Ideal humidity range during the day for veileds is between 30-50%.
It’s best to do some frequent cleaning of the poops - like daily or every other day and that helps avoid the need for deeper cleaning. Many use a dilute vinegar for cleaning. I’ve used that and a very dilute Nature’s Miracle for deeper cleaning. Avoid strong fumes or chemicals. Chameleons lungs are like tissue paper.

 

[ERKleRose]

Welcome on here, and congrats! Do you have your veiled yet or no? Also, what is the gender (their care slightly differs based on gender)? Here are some helpful links to read through if you haven’t already!
https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/ (this is most up to date, accurate, and science backed chameleon care available- read through every module if you can!)
https://chameleonacademy.com/veiled-chameleon-care/ (this is all correct except for precise feeding amounts based on age, basking temps can be lower for males, 80-85*F, and females need 78-80*F, and the humidity can dip lower during the day, too- 30-50%)
https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/ (only use veiled tested live plants, as veileds will eat plastic plants/plastic leaves on fake vines- no moss or Exo Terra vines either, they are both dangerous, as well, which can cause at minimum impaction, and at worst death. Make sure to clean the plants, repot them in organic soil, and cover the soil with rocks too big for your cham to eat before placing them in the cage)
https://chameleonacademy.com/setting-up-a-chameleon-cage/ (these last two are great links for cage set up examples, if you need any!)
http://www.muchadoaboutchameleons.com/2012/04/how-to-set-up-proper-chameleon.html

As for your questions, you’ll want to get a probed digital thermometer (or thermometer-hygrometer combo) to measure your basking temperature. You can use regular (unprobed) digital thermometer-hygrometer combos to measure other areas in the cage. Sadly temp guns are useless, as they measure surface temp while we need to measure air temp

You’ll use distilled water if possible, it produces much less build up on misting nozzles and is perfectly safe for chameleons

At minimum, you’ll mist around both lights on and lights off. Both of those mistings need to be at least 2 minutes long (or longer) each time, that’s the minimum amount of time to trigger a cham’s drinking response. If your humidity drops too low during the day (under 30%), you can add a misting session late in the day. You can also do short spurts of misting throughout the night to help raise humidity, too (much easier if you have an automatic mister). If there is enough of a nighttime temperature drop (preferably 65*F or lower), you can also use a cool mist humidifier/fogger during the middle of the night to help with hydration!

@JacksJill blogs, Cage Cleaning Sanitation is Sexier Than You Think, are a great source of info for cleaning!
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/blog/jacksjills-blog.40624/

If you have any other questions, let us know! Also, if you want to fill out a husbandry form to make sure your husbandry is in tip top shape, let us know!

 

[Charms]

Thanks for the info everyone.

I do not yet have the veiled. I'm adopting one this weekend, hopefully. The enclosure is finally set up. My wife and I built a bioactive enclosure based on some videos we watched, and we spared no expense. Got all chameleon-safe plants, special reptile soil, hydroballs, vines, moss, the works. We have introduced the worms and isopods as well.

I intend to adopt a male; the females seem a bit more complicated, and I don't want to endanger one as my first pet.

Rose, you mentioned "no moss or exo terra vines" - but these were recommended by both the reptile specialist we met (Reptropolis, Dana Point) and the videos we watched. Should we remove them? We were told they help manage the humidity and give the chameleon more drinking options.

Do you have a specific thermometer / hygrometer combo you recommend? I'll buy it.

 

[ERKleRose]

I do not yet have the veiled. I'm adopting one this weekend, hopefully.

Awesome! Do you know the age (if you do, @Beman can give you a feeding schedule to stick to, as I only know adult veiled feeding schedules)? Where are you getting him, if you don’t mind me asking? Sadly not all sources are reputable, so you want to get a cham from one that is so you start out with a healthy little dude!

My wife and I built a bioactive enclosure based on some videos we watched, and we spared no expense. Got all chameleon-safe plants, special reptile soil, hydroballs, vines, moss, the works. We have introduced the worms and isopods as well.

That sounds great! I’d love to see pics! I’d start out with the cham in a quarantine set up so if anything health issue pops up, you don’t have to potentially trash the entire bioactive enclosure. You can remove the soil and everything in it to another bin to continue establishing or set up a different quarantine cage altogether. I’d also remove all the moss (besides the moss already mixed into the soil if you have that), it’s an impaction risk, especially for veileds. For chameleons, you cover the soil entirely with leaf litter, no moss layer then leaf litter. Do you have any springtails?

I intend to adopt a male

I’m so excited for you and your wife! Do y’all have a name picked out already?

Rose, you mentioned "no moss or exo terra vines" - but these were recommended by both the reptile specialist we met (Reptropolis, Dana Point) and the videos we watched. Should we remove them? We were told they help manage the humidity and give the chameleon more drinking options.

Definitely remove them! Sadly it’s very hard to find proper husbandry, and not many pet stores, even the reptile ones, know proper cham care. You can search the forums and see the issues they’ve caused. A better way to help raise humidity is more live plants, going bioactive, and longer misting times. Better drinking options are plant leaves and real branches and vines

Do you have a specific thermometer / hygrometer combo you recommend? I'll buy it.

There’s multiple options you can decide from depending on which you prefer. There’s basic digital ones, and there’s smart ones you can connect to your phone using Bluetooth. You can get a basic digital from the weather section at any home improvement store, some pet stores also sell digit combos, and online (reptile supply stores, Amazon, etc). I like to make sure there’s a max and min humidity part and a highest and lowest temp part along with the current temperature and humidity levels if you go this route. I’ve just dipped my toe into smart combo ones, but a lot of people use the Govee ones: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=govee+sm...smart+ther,aps,142&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_2_16 . This is the one I bought, but I literally installed it only a couple of days ago, so I can’t tell you much yet: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXP3XLLR?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1 . I do like that with the probe, I can keep the main part out of the cage (I installed this grommet on my screen cage to stop holes in the screen and squishing wires in the door: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BF9LQ4CL?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1 ). Whichever type and option you buy, make sure that the accuracy difference is as small as possible! If possible, make sure your humidity and temp levels for day, night, and basking (do you know where to put the probe for this?) are already honed in before you get your cham!


You and your wife sound like incredible keepers already, your future cham is a lucky little guy!

 

[ERKleRose]

Here’s the probeless Bluetooth one I bought, and it happens to be Govee
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0872V9WJ5?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

 

[Beman]

Might post a picture of your set up.... There are a few things you mentioned having for it that would be concerning with a Veiled.

Feeding schedule depends on if this is a male or a female your adopting.

Females
As babies they get as much as they want... Typically 2 dozen small insects per day.
As she matures you will have to start cutting back her food. By about 6-7 months she should be getting about 5-8 small feeders each day. At about 7-8 months you want to slowly reduce by cutting down feeder amounts so that she is on a feeding schedule of 3 days a week with 3 feeders. You want them to be on this schedule by the time they are 9-10 months old.


You will not ever want basking to be over 78-80 for her. Very important for females because as she ages she needs this temp no higher at basking to help control the amount of eggs she produces. The hotter the temp the more their metabolism speeds up so we have to keep the temp lower since we are doing lower food intake.

A lay bin should be added as a permanent fixture by the time they are 6 months old so they get used to it and it does not cause stress.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video.77225/

Males
As babies they get as much as they want... Typically 2 dozen small insects per day. Normally around 7-9 months old they will start curbing down on their own. This is your sign to reduce insects down to 10-12 per day. You want to do a gradual reduction week over week after this point. I normally take one feeder away each feeding each week. By 11 months old I take them to every other day feedings. Because by the time they are 12 months old they need to be on a feeding schedule of every other day 3-5 insects.

 

[Charms]

Rose, sorry for the slow reply:

1. We don't have one picked out yet; we are going to a reptile expo this weekend to browse. My wife is certified in exotic animal training from EATM and is a former zookeeper with a BS in biology. We've been adopting animals (especially disabled animals) for years and caring for them. For this reason, I'm not looking for a designer chameleon with the best genetics. I'm just looking for any chameleon who needs a good home. There was a neglected chameleon dropped off at a pet store recently, and we built this enclosure for her, but she was adopted out before we finished. We were really steamed.

2. Our enclosure has hydroballs, then a suncloth, then a 4-inch layer of reptisoil, then a layer of magnolia leaf litter and moss. We will remove the moss and the exo terra vines and replace with branches. The enclosure also has pothos, umbrella, and maiden hair. It's got some bamboo branches and a basking "nest" that is basically a rope hammock. It has springtails, isopods of many colors, and big ass earthworms living in it. Everybody seems happy.

3. The name will be "Charms"

Thanks for all of your advice!

 

[ERKleRose]

You’re all good, no worries!

1. We don't have one picked out yet; we are going to a reptile expo this weekend to browse. My wife is certified in exotic animal training from EATM and is a former zookeeper with a BS in biology. We've been adopting animals (especially disabled animals) for years and caring for them. For this reason, I'm not looking for a designer chameleon with the best genetics. I'm just looking for any chameleon who needs a good home. There was a neglected chameleon dropped off at a pet store recently, and we built this enclosure for her, but she was adopted out before we finished. We were really steamed.

That’s awesome of y’all, just be careful! And if there are no rescues there, and you decide to go with a breeder there, make sure they’re reputable first. Infections, parasites, and genetics that can cause fatal issues earlier in life are all options with rescues and bad breeders, and I don’t want y’all to get disappointed and spend up to thousands at the vet when there could be an euthanasia outcome, especially with your first cham. And definitely quarantine with rescues before putting them into anything bioactive! Good luck, and keep us updated!

2. Our enclosure has hydroballs, then a suncloth, then a 4-inch layer of reptisoil, then a layer of magnolia leaf litter and moss. We will remove the moss and the exo terra vines and replace with branches. The enclosure also has pothos, umbrella, and maiden hair. It's got some bamboo branches and a basking "nest" that is basically a rope hammock. It has springtails, isopods of many colors, and big ass earthworms living in it. Everybody seems happy.

This is almost all perfect! Bamboo branches are very slippery, so if you could replace those with other branches (assuming these are cham usable branches and not structural ones), that’d be great! Rope hammocks are not safe either, chams can get their nails caught in them, and if they rip out their nails, it can lead to infection

3. The name will be "Charms"

Aww, that’s adorable!!

 

[MzLaurie]

Hello and welcome. Sounds like you have done a lot of research which is good. Your misting schedule and feeders will be determined on the age and sex of the cham. The most hearty are the male veiled chams. My vet recommended cleaning with Chlorhexidine gluconate 2% which I have used for years with no issues. The vines I love are flyukers bend a branch without any moss. It holds up great. Six years now with no breakdown plus it comes in three different thicknesses so if you get a young one its easy to upgrade. My three year old male loves pearching on the large one I have under his basking light and sleeping on a medium one that weaves thru leaves of a plant. As you know each one comes with its own personality and it communicates by changing colors, size, so it will be your job to learn what means what! They are just fascinating. You should post pics of your enclosure and fill out the form so a proper husbandry can be done before getting him/her into the cage. Date of birth is important too so try to get that if you can. Especially if you get a female. I understand about rescuing, but its best to learn on a healthy one first. They are masters at hiding health issues until its almost too late. The best of luck to you both. I must say of all the animals I have had and salt tanks etc, chameleons are the most complicated initially. You don't just have to take care of the cham and cage, but the feeders too!

 

[Charms]

Man, I really feel like the reptile store that sold me all of this stuff really misinformed me. I've got an entire structure of bamboo branches in the enclosure, fastened together as one giant piece, per their recommendation. So now I'll have to either sand them down to get them a bit better textured for the chameleon's grip, or maybe wrap them in something, but removing them at this point would require disassembly of the entire enclosure. My wife would be pissed! She's the one who has spearheaded that project because she's extremely crafty.

Any ideas?

 

[ERKleRose]

Man, I really feel like the reptile store that sold me all of this stuff really misinformed me. I've got an entire structure of bamboo branches in the enclosure, fastened together as one giant piece, per their recommendation. So now I'll have to either sand them down to get them a bit better textured for the chameleon's grip, or maybe wrap them in something, but removing them at this point would require disassembly of the entire enclosure. My wife would be pissed! She's the one who has spearheaded that project because she's extremely crafty.

Any ideas?

Sadly reptile stores rarely know proper cham care and/or are looking for more sales. You can keep the bamboo structure in! Just fill it in with safe branches and vines instead of the bamboo you’re currently using as branches inside of it, and you’ll be good to go! If you do sand the bamboo for better grip (I do this myself when using bamboo structures), use a low grit sandpaper

 

[Beman]

Rose, sorry for the slow reply:

1. We don't have one picked out yet; we are going to a reptile expo this weekend to browse. My wife is certified in exotic animal training from EATM and is a former zookeeper with a BS in biology. We've been adopting animals (especially disabled animals) for years and caring for them. For this reason, I'm not looking for a designer chameleon with the best genetics. I'm just looking for any chameleon who needs a good home. There was a neglected chameleon dropped off at a pet store recently, and we built this enclosure for her, but she was adopted out before we finished. We were really steamed.

2. Our enclosure has hydroballs, then a suncloth, then a 4-inch layer of reptisoil, then a layer of magnolia leaf litter and moss. We will remove the moss and the exo terra vines and replace with branches. The enclosure also has pothos, umbrella, and maiden hair. It's got some bamboo branches and a basking "nest" that is basically a rope hammock. It has springtails, isopods of many colors, and big ass earthworms living in it. Everybody seems happy.

3. The name will be "Charms"

Thanks for all of your advice!

Please reconsider buying from the expo... Lots of "breeders" that do not breed caring about the health of the animals. We have seen a lot of people end up with chams that have parasites, respiratory infections, and even MBD from these expos. So if it is not a leading breeder in the hobby there at the expo I would think twice about buying from them.

 

[Charms]

Please reconsider buying from the expo... Lots of "breeders" that do not breed caring about the health of the animals. We have seen a lot of people end up with chams that have parasites, respiratory infections, and even MBD from these expos. So if it is not a leading breeder in the hobby there at the expo I would think twice about buying from them.

Where do you recommend I go to adopt a chameleon then? People keep telling me, "don't do pet stores, don't do breeders," etc. I really don't like the idea of ordering one online and having them stick it in a box and shipping it to me. That sounds horrifically cruel.

 

[ERKleRose]

@jannb knows lots of rescues and where to get responsibility bred veileds, so hopefully she can help out! You can also check the chameleons for sale and the chameleon rehoming sections in the chameleons classified forum on here if you’re set on adopting. If you’re not comfortable with shipping, that does limit your options by a lot

 

[Beman]

Where do you recommend I go to adopt a chameleon then? People keep telling me, "don't do pet stores, don't do breeders," etc. I really don't like the idea of ordering one online and having them stick it in a box and shipping it to me. That sounds horrifically cruel.

If you want a healthy chameleon then you purchase from a well known reputable breeder. It is not cruel for them to be shipped. They sleep the entire way because it is dark.

If you want to risk it then do it at the expo. I have just seen way too many horrific threads the last 6 years from people that wanted to only buy in person from a pet store or expo. I hate seeing people brand new to the hobby have horrible first time experiences.

 

[MzLaurie]

Hello. One thing I would do with the Bambo is fill the holes at both ends with wood putty so your feeders don’t end up there. I learned that with my favorite branches which are dead rubber tree branches that the worms especially go there to change. Anyway bend a branch is the safest vine on the market and you can create a nice jungle gym and perching spot. Tell your wife that she must be careful to put deviders in between anything that could shift and pinch or break there hands and feet. I made perches out of rose stems without the thorns of course and used dental floss wrapped at three places to leave space so that wouldn’t happen. They look like little rafts and my chams can lay sideways to get more heat when basking. You Must get a full range of zip ties as glue will not hold with all the water over time too. Also you must consider if you will let your Cham hunt or make a run. Even with a run, crickets will get loose so you have to think where will they go to hide and if your Cham shots his tongue out is there anything dangerous that will go down his gullet with the feeder like rocks, pebbles, perlite, wood chips. Sifting top soil is what I try to do. A good life plant is monestra. It’s hearty and the stalks hold up under the weight with large leaves to provide cover. Good luck. Oh I have had two cgamleons flown to me with no issues. I don’t suggest getting one younger than four months. My baby boy flew to me from NY to CA and my rescue flew to me from Texas. When it’s dark, they sleep! Just make sure you check weather for any delays and wait until there are none. Good luck

 

[Charms]

Can anyone recommend a trusted veiled breeder, preferably in California / west coast, where the shipping won't be long? I don't like the idea of an animal being in a box for a week.

 

[GrannyK]

Can anyone recommend a trusted veiled breeder, preferably in California / west coast, where the shipping won't be long? I don't like the idea of an animal being in a box for a week.

They are not good people if they tell you a week… annyon reputable will over night so they are in the box sleeping for a day ish.

 

[GrannyK]

Did you try frams chams? Very reputable. They had a few left.