Aggression on the forums recently?

[Andee]

Lately, being the last few days and spread out the last couple weeks for sure, there is a lot more aggression on threads than I like seeing. Especially threads in my opinion that absolutely don't warrant frustrated responses. If you are frustrated with someone and other people are responding don't respond, especially if the situation has already be solved. People comment on my patience a lot when they pm me, I don't have patience... I just take a step back and realize not everyone will start with tons of experience, research sadly can only do so much, each chameleon and case is hugely individual. The sad thing is I have seen a huge influx of personal messages to me from people I am helping in their current threads because their threads turn unfriendly in some way. I don't know why they come to me honestly, but I don't say "go away" I do my best to help, and message people I know will know answers if I don't know them.

The problem with being too passionate about things is people can take your frustrated response as an attack on them, this happens to brand new members and members who have been here a while and are just having a hard time with a chameleon. The fact that there is so much frustration in responses to people who are asking for help doesn't make sense to me, because honestly who do we think we are? I am someone who openly rescues chameleons, but I never say I know everything, I am learning stuff every single day, I also never turn anyone away if they legitimately need help. (or I at least try not to) And this is largely because there are TOO MANY chameleons out there for me to take care of, so at least I can help by offering some advice to people who need it on a daily basis.

Think about this next time you are about to go off on someone. Reread your posts people, think of how it may sound to someone else.

Daily consideration lesson of the day brought to you by
-Amber

 

[Andee]

This is one of those moments where I read back over the post because I have just eaten and been liked by the all amazing, Brad... and yet I notice this huge glaring grammar/spelling error and it's been too long to edit... hate myself sometimes... I did reread this before posting. So I honestly don't know how I missed it XD

 

[Twitchet]

I'm so glad to of seen this post this morning, so very well said Andee, you are one of the people that put my faith back in the forums, when I saw posts of unpleasant, thoughtless and unkind remarks left by a member on a recent issue it really saddened me that it would happen here, yes, we do get emotionally charged and frustrated but you have hit the nail on the head in your post, I very rarely if not ever get dragged into these distasteful squabbles that we have seen recently even though sometimes I'd like to but it doesn't do anyone any good.
No one is perfect, no one knows everything although sometimes you get the feeling some do seem to think they do, we make mistakes, do our best , get it right, get it wrong but hopefully we are all here to learn, share, support and improve.
Makes me feel like moving away from the forum for a while after the comments, directed incidentally not at me, I read that will stick with me sadly for a while but I enjoy this forum, it's helpful info, the kind and helpful people, the funny posts- who couldn't love a picture of a baby chamelon with a little smiley face on it, and many of the people I have met to let one or two people spoil it for me.
Thank you Andee.

 

[Andee]

Well and it's so frustrating for me, not answering questions constantly of the same issues with newer keepers, but when people just start going off on the people. A lot of people do think pet stores know what they are talking about because if you don't KNOW already that pet stores are wrong, then they can bullshit their way through selling you unnecessary and harmful stuff for multiple species. I have had this issue with hamsters, leopard geckos, hermit crabs, fish... dogs... cats... I mean god. The problem is they sound knowledgeable when they say it because they hire people who can sell a can of beans to a farmer whose growing their own. I actually have had my hours cut at pet stores because my "sales" were not good enough, because I refused to sell shit that was unnecessary. But I had a far higher rate of return customers because they trusted me. That and I made all the friends with the most aggressive reptiles we had XD I just ended up quitting those jobs and refused to work in pet stores again because they would not give me a high enough position and instead hired someone who was completely unqualified to care for the animals in the store but because they had higher sales rates *shrugs* whatev.

What I mean is... we joined a forum that people join to ask for help and we are meant to give advice on said subjects... so if you don't enjoy doing it... why'd you join? Make your own forum where all you talk about is different breeding techniques or something. In my opinion there is so much more to not only CF and the chameleon community it has created, but also to chameleon keeping in general than just talking about different techniques. And sometimes we just need to remember what it was like when we got, not even our first chameleon, but our first reptiles? I remember I did huge no-nos with my first leopard gecko... if I kept a gecko like I did when I was 5-8 with my first leo I would have said... omg you are a horrible person in my head immediately. But I also didn't know better at all. She ended up dying because of how we kept her... which makes me even more upset with how I keep my leos and reptiles now, but it wasn't easy finding info back then, I was also a child, and though mom encouraged me to research... it was hard when the internet was not as wonderful as it is now. She still lived far longer in my opinion than she ever should have... and she was always, always loved by me. We would have taken her to the vet if we had a chance. She ended up getting squished because I didn't know at the time she needed a hide, and she buried under the water dish which was too heavy. Miss that girl she was just amazing. *raises a glass to all those reptiles who were lost in the early days*

 

[Remkon]

I recently posted less than I normally do and things get out of hand! Coincidence? I THINK NOT!

 

[absolutbill]

Things are very cyclical on this forum. I don't post a lot, but I've been on here about 9 years. I also don't read every thread, because I have a busy life, and only read the ones that interest me. What I've seen happen is that chameleon owners come in waves - a bunch will be new and ask a ton of questions. Then, about 6 months-a year passes, and now those newbies are "experts", even though they only have ever had 1 chameleon. I'm not trying to say that personal experience isn't valid, but it's important to remember that's a single chameleon who may or may not be the norm.

I also will read, but rarely chime in on the topics that honestly don't matter. Years ago it was about Nosy Falys, and people asking if their panther was a true Faly or not based upon it's coloration. Major flare-ups happened, but unless you are breeding, or really think you were mis-led and paid too much, what does it matter? More recently it's about whether or not chameleons can develop feelings and emotions toward their owners. Personally I believe they can - I've had 5 chameleons so far, and have watched another very respected keeper on here interact with hers, and I can see the bonding that has happened. Does it matter if chameleons can love us or not? No. It really doesn't. It makes us as humans feel needed and wanted, but in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't make a bit of difference. In a nutshell, this is the way the forums work, and you can either turn the other cheek when things get out of hand, or let it affect you. How you deal with it is your personal preference, but since you probably will never meet any of us, there are always bigger fish to fry in the world. Good luck.

 

[Andee]

I find it sad that people can't just say "ok we disagree, but your way seems to be working and not doing harm so *shrugs* there's nothing to fight about". Instead I see a lot of people saying this certain thing is an absolute. If I have learned anything with any type of animal, nothing is an absolute.

Maybe chameleons can't love their people, but they can definitely bond. Otherwise they'd all hate us and bite us all the time. The fact that they don't shows they have some ability about deciding how much something is a threat. And then you start building on that trust they give you and all of a sudden you a bond.

 

[Twitchet]

Some interesting points here but There will always be the newbies that kick off at things- I do find them frustrating especially when an animals welfare is at risk but their headstrong ways won't change for a while yet- some people just don't want to hear sometimes- some just don't know how to care for an animal through no fault of they own and come for guidance and help and reassurance ,
what I personally find more difficult to cope with is when a older or more established member behaves in an unkind or unhelpful manner- sure we have our breaking points but aren't they supposed to be above the snarling and bickering?
As to not get into the very trap that i find unpleasant I'll leave this now
Good luck to all

 

[WAMBO]

Things are very cyclical on this forum. I don't post a lot, but I've been on here about 9 years. I also don't read every thread, because I have a busy life, and only read the ones that interest me. What I've seen happen is that chameleon owners come in waves - a bunch will be new and ask a ton of questions. Then, about 6 months-a year passes, and now those newbies are "experts", even though they only have ever had 1 chameleon. I'm not trying to say that personal experience isn't valid, but it's important to remember that's a single chameleon who may or may not be the norm.

I also will read, but rarely chime in on the topics that honestly don't matter. Years ago it was about Nosy Falys, and people asking if their panther was a true Faly or not based upon it's coloration. Major flare-ups happened, but unless you are breeding, or really think you were mis-led and paid too much, what does it matter? More recently it's about whether or not chameleons can develop feelings and emotions toward their owners. Personally I believe they can - I've had 5 chameleons so far, and have watched another very respected keeper on here interact with hers, and I can see the bonding that has happened. Does it matter if chameleons can love us or not? No. It really doesn't. It makes us as humans feel needed and wanted, but in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't make a bit of difference. In a nutshell, this is the way the forums work, and you can either turn the other cheek when things get out of hand, or let it affect you. How you deal with it is your personal preference, but since you probably will never meet any of us, there are always bigger fish to fry in the world. Good luck.

You don't have to own 5 chams for 10 yrs to recommend following standard husbandry, including the caresheets, or helpful hints for habitats, etc... However, one should draw the line at diagnosing [health] issues without proper experience or training, IMO. Too many health problems can look identical, but have entirely different solutions, or delay a diagnosis and proper treatment beyond success, leading to failure.

 

[ScrantonStrangler]

Hey guys..I'm super new here so this isn't even my place..
But you guys have honestly been extremely helpful..I've pmd many people..and still have alot of dumb questions to ask..so on behalf of the newbies I'd just like to thank all of you for turning what you love into a real learning experience for the people who don't know what the hell they're doing..
So yeah..keep up the good work guys..
And don't let the Internet frustrate you!

 

[tenchijin]

Can I point out, respectfully, that bringing the controversial topics *into this thread* and offering your opinion on them is not a way to express your willingness to avoid aggression and argument. I would humbly suggest to leave your opinions on known argument-inducing topics in THOSE threads.

 

[WAMBO]

Lately, being the last few days and spread out the last couple weeks for sure, there is a lot more aggression on threads than I like seeing. Especially threads in my opinion that absolutely don't warrant frustrated responses. If you are frustrated with someone and other people are responding don't respond, especially if the situation has already be solved. People comment on my patience a lot when they pm me, I don't have patience... I just take a step back and realize not everyone will start with tons of experience, research sadly can only do so much, each chameleon and case is hugely individual. The sad thing is I have seen a huge influx of personal messages to me from people I am helping in their current threads because their threads turn unfriendly in some way. I don't know why they come to me honestly, but I don't say "go away" I do my best to help, and message people I know will know answers if I don't know them.

The problem with being too passionate about things is people can take your frustrated response as an attack on them, this happens to brand new members and members who have been here a while and are just having a hard time with a chameleon. The fact that there is so much frustration in responses to people who are asking for help doesn't make sense to me, because honestly who do we think we are? I am someone who openly rescues chameleons, but I never say I know everything, I am learning stuff every single day, I also never turn anyone away if they legitimately need help. (or I at least try not to) And this is largely because there are TOO MANY chameleons out there for me to take care of, so at least I can help by offering some advice to people who need it on a daily basis.

Think about this next time you are about to go off on someone. Reread your posts people, think of how it may sound to someone else.

Daily consideration lesson of the day brought to you by
-Amber

To add, few people will respond to one's liking when an angry reply is utilized. In fact, members should notice that anger often yields the opposite suggested outcome, making such a reply unhelpful. Passive-aggressive posts often don't yield the desired response as well.

 

[JacksJill]

If your intent is to help the cham in need then the only way to do that is thru the owner handler. If you insult them they will turn off and not seek the help they need.
If they won't listen to good advise from several members then they don't really want help and there is nothing you can do for them. Insults won't change them and you only waste your time and energy. It makes me sad for the cham but there is nothing you can do about it. There are people who sincerely want help, don't burn yourself out to the point you can't help them.
If you feel yourself getting burned out and frustrated why not take a break.

Chameleons will appreciate this expression "You can catch a lot more flies with honey than you can with vinegar"

 

[Andee]

I am definitely not getting frustrated, not with helping people.

 

[JacksJill]

I didn't mean you. I meant the ones who are overly critical/honest.

 

[HMills94]

Mean people suck!

 

[JacksJill]

Their hearts are in the right place but their methods could be improved.

 

[Andee]

Ah ok XD just making sure to clear up any confusion.

 

[XxSepiorxX]

I know this thread opened 10 days ago but I need to reply. I have seen this hate on forums recently, mostly going to the new members. The more experienced once got EXTREMELY FRUSTRATED at me on one threads (it was called, "MBD, please help!), the argument was mostly because I wouldn't take in anymore advice, with 2 staff coming in to stop it. By now, I and told by higher ranked not give out not to give out advice because it's all fake or because keepers on the fourms told me that my keeping is all wrong. Only because of that thread. My chameleon was sick before I got it and I had to nurse it back to heath . I knew he would die quick (2 years). And also because I am 10, members think I should not be shouldn't be helping.
I just wanted to say something about this.

 

[alphakenc]

All I can suggest is go with the flow, in the real world out there it can be much worst than what we have to deal in this forum,not everyone is going to agree with me n u ,keep ur head up n try not let them bother u thats all.