My veiled has been getting progressively more aggressive. I bought him about 2 months ago. He is about a year old, maybe a little less. I take him out of his cage once a week to clean it. At first he didn't really mind getting picked up and moved. Yesterday I went to move him (and he ussually hisses), and he hissed very angrilly at me and actually lunged and snapped at me a couple of times. I actually had to clean his cage with him in it this time. I heard this is normal as they grow accustomed to their environment. Yes? Also If he was to bit me what kind of damage would he do? It doesn't even look like he has teeth, but I know they are there. T
Angry S.O.B.
- Thread starter turk81
- Start date
Brad Ramsey
Retired Moderator
Totally normal.
Why is it necessary to remove him from the enclosure for weekly cleanings?
You need to pick up poop daily, wipe things down once in awhile and only do a big cleaning 3 or 4 times a year.
-Brad
Why is it necessary to remove him from the enclosure for weekly cleanings?
You need to pick up poop daily, wipe things down once in awhile and only do a big cleaning 3 or 4 times a year.
-Brad
ChameleonsTree
New Member
wear gloves
Edward Kim
Established Member
Try mating the fella. I noticed that aggressive males become a bit nicer when losing their virginity.
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Will Hayward
New Member
And some will become seemingly demonic after mating, as now there is a reason to defend their territory- ladies...
dodolah
Retired Moderator
what kind of gloves? where can you get them?
I am postponing the big cleaning for another 2 weeks or so due to advises that i got from this forum.
my baby just hisses at me once.. but better b safe..i don't want to get bitten.
Vegas Chad
Avid Member
Any clean gloves that you can get from any store... Some el cheapo leather ones would do ya well.
Dyesub Dave
New Member
I use the yellow rubber gloves from the grocery store!! A buck a pair works for me!! LOL
Dyesub Dave.
Dyesub Dave.
dodolah
Retired Moderator
the teeth are not gonna go through?
hmm leather eh..
I think i might just buy that..
any precaution that i should know about? such as no latex or etc etc..
Vegas Chad
Avid Member
hahaha, noooo no teeth will get through that. You will feel pressure if it gives you a really good chomp, but nothing more than that... I'd get leather because that will last ya the best and wont do anything if they bite it... I dont use them so much for the bite'n I like them because they have a damn strong grip and at times sharp nails! Its nothing to really big deal tho.
My veiled has bit me before -- it's not so bad. But beware of what my vet refers to as "the splat factor." You get bit and automatically (without even thinking) snap back, cham doesn't let go automatically and gets flung across the room ... the name says it all. Unfortunately she's seen too many get killed or seriously injured that way. I also worry that I could damage his teeth by yanking back so usually I just sit there (being prepared helps me not be surprised) and smile back at him until he lets go.
Jeweledchameleons
Avid Member
What's happening is that their testosterone levels are going up and a few things are happening.
Firstly, he's defining and defending his "territory" against you and your hand.
Secondly, He's aggressing against you largely due to fear
He hasn't learned that you are not going to harm (eat) him.
remember they're prey items in the wild.
Ways around this.
Let him see and respond to another male chameleon.
This will help distinguish the difference between you and his own species
He'll still "defend his turf" but it'll help the situation.
Buy some cheap garden gloves at the 99¢ store.
use these to pick him up gently and handle him... be patent with him.
He'll never get the idea that "the hand"
isn't trying to eat him unless he is handled nicely.
They're acting largely in fear and instinct... it may take some time.
Never grab him from above.. always below.
IF they refuse gently touch his feet and tail to motivate him to let go
and hop on the gloved hand.
If he bites the glove no biggie - let him get that over with
eventually he'll get the idea that "it's pointless" and start thinking about other things
like sunlight, being out of the cage, looking around the place for things that interest them.
What I've also done, while being handled, is to associate it with positive things
like: food, sunlight and "water".
One of my first veiled's because my greatest "fly shooter"
as soon as I got him I placed him on my index finger and "went hunting"
he learned very quickly that when I pointed him somewhere ... food was right in front of him.
We would go around the garden and I would help him eat his lunch.
he became an extremely friendly male cham.
anyways, I Initially watered my all animals with a pipette or a medicine dropper
Eventually I've learned that holding them near a trickling faucet will also work
The trick is that they're attracted to the sparkling light distortions water makes
turn on the lights and hold them near the faucet and a slow trickly
and with any luck they'll drink their fill from that.
It all seems to "flip a switch" in all the animals I've done this with
they all calm down relax within a months time (YMMV).
It doesn't mean that hissing won't stop when you open up the cage
but the aggressive/defensive striking will lessen or negate completely
and you can pick them up without any fuss.
thats when their personalities really start to come out (imo).
Firstly, he's defining and defending his "territory" against you and your hand.
Secondly, He's aggressing against you largely due to fear
He hasn't learned that you are not going to harm (eat) him.
remember they're prey items in the wild.
Ways around this.
Let him see and respond to another male chameleon.
This will help distinguish the difference between you and his own species
He'll still "defend his turf" but it'll help the situation.
Buy some cheap garden gloves at the 99¢ store.
use these to pick him up gently and handle him... be patent with him.
He'll never get the idea that "the hand"
isn't trying to eat him unless he is handled nicely.
They're acting largely in fear and instinct... it may take some time.
Never grab him from above.. always below.
IF they refuse gently touch his feet and tail to motivate him to let go
and hop on the gloved hand.
If he bites the glove no biggie - let him get that over with
eventually he'll get the idea that "it's pointless" and start thinking about other things
like sunlight, being out of the cage, looking around the place for things that interest them.
What I've also done, while being handled, is to associate it with positive things
like: food, sunlight and "water".
One of my first veiled's because my greatest "fly shooter"
as soon as I got him I placed him on my index finger and "went hunting"
he learned very quickly that when I pointed him somewhere ... food was right in front of him.
We would go around the garden and I would help him eat his lunch.
he became an extremely friendly male cham.
anyways, I Initially watered my all animals with a pipette or a medicine dropper
Eventually I've learned that holding them near a trickling faucet will also work
The trick is that they're attracted to the sparkling light distortions water makes
turn on the lights and hold them near the faucet and a slow trickly
and with any luck they'll drink their fill from that.
It all seems to "flip a switch" in all the animals I've done this with
they all calm down relax within a months time (YMMV).
It doesn't mean that hissing won't stop when you open up the cage
but the aggressive/defensive striking will lessen or negate completely
and you can pick them up without any fuss.
thats when their personalities really start to come out (imo).
royden
New Member
Your reaction will always be the biggest danger from a bite like.
And from my experience, they don't really "strike" though their lunging makes it seem that way. Mine has always slowly gotten a firm grip with his mouth, and then he chomps and lets go. It's very predictable and less alarming than a kind of a snake strike that they make you beleive they can accomplish.
Can anyone back me up on this?
And from my experience, they don't really "strike" though their lunging makes it seem that way. Mine has always slowly gotten a firm grip with his mouth, and then he chomps and lets go. It's very predictable and less alarming than a kind of a snake strike that they make you beleive they can accomplish.
Can anyone back me up on this?
Will Hayward
New Member
Oh just let him be! Sheesh! These are WILD animals. Emphisis on Wild. They do not need to be tamed nor should you be buying mates for them just to sway their personality. Give him HIS space, clean it for him, and let him be. Handle him rarely, with gloves if needed- for checkups (chameleon physicals), transportation, and visits to the vet. Other than that, let him think his cage is the Wild and protect it all he wants.
Jeweledchameleons
Avid Member
With respect,
Yes, they can have their cage and protect their turf.. no problem there
but IF they're always stressed by the very sight of you in your home
then I think it's best to let them know that "you mean them no harm"
so that both the "pet" and the owner can relax.
Heck, I have some panthers that actually chose to move onto my arm
without any help or motivation from myself and climb their way onto my shoulder.
Thats not the behavior or a freaked out and wild animal thats afraid of you.
All of mine are captive bred and handled since a young age
I believe that makes a huge difference in the their lives for better (ymmv).
Limiting them to a cage is often cruel.. especially when they want out.
Certainly this applies with other animals as well (hookbills for example).
imo, there's nothing wrong with letting a chameleon freerange out of his cage a bit
as long as it's safe for them to do so and even handling them is fine.
provide that the handler knows how to handle such animals
(no rapid or unpredictable jerky movements)
Will Hayward
New Member
With respect, letting them be, encompasses giving them privacy, and so less stress.
As I have said many times before, don't tame them, just establish trust. Trust doesnt mean they have to be nice to you though.
As I have said many times before, don't tame them, just establish trust. Trust doesnt mean they have to be nice to you though.
Jeweledchameleons
Avid Member
Will,
Perhaps it's the concept of "tame" that's the stumbling block here
I agree that "they need their own space", I would never go so far
as to think that they all going to be completely "tamed" animals.
Meaning: without any fear or concerns relating to people or upfront demands for respect.
To have an individual cham at a level of ease with you and "comfortable"
are both different concepts than "tamed"
and I think that's quite possible to achieve that level with most captive bred animals.
Perhaps it's the concept of "tame" that's the stumbling block here
I agree that "they need their own space", I would never go so far
as to think that they all going to be completely "tamed" animals.
Meaning: without any fear or concerns relating to people or upfront demands for respect.
To have an individual cham at a level of ease with you and "comfortable"
are both different concepts than "tamed"
and I think that's quite possible to achieve that level with most captive bred animals.
Dyesub Dave
New Member
When I received my male veiled he was around 4 yrs. of age and in a 20 gal. aquarium. He had scraped his chin and veil from trying to get out of the cage. I quickly got him into a 40 gal. aquarium and then within a month or so into a 75 gal. aquarium. In all these enclosures he would love to come out. Even when I opened the 75 gal. (Horizontal at that time) he would crawl right out on my arm and up to my shoulder. I don't know that he was TAME but he obviously wanted out of his enclosure enough to overcome any fears he may have had.
Now he's in a 175 gal. flexarium with a Ficus Tree and Hibiscus Bush. He doesn't usually show any interest in leaving this enclosure and generally runs away if I try to get him out. However I have noticed lately that if I leave the screen open he comes right to the edge of the opening on his tree. If I slowly put my hand in he looks at it but doesn't climb on it but also doesn't run away. ( Might be because I often feed him silkworms by hand. ) He even allows me to stroke his chin without moving away. After that I just let him be and figure that he'll let me know when he wants to come out.
While I understand both points of view in this scenario I believe there has to be a happy medium. I'm not sure that you're going to totally tame a prey animal who even though captive bred still has instincts intact and we probably shouldn't even try to do it. But on the other hand if you're going to treat these like wild animals then they should be left in the wild without our interaction at all.
While in our care this animal will at some point need to be picked up to be moved to another enclosure, taken to the vet, need their enclosure sterilized or for a number of other reasons. It seems to make sense that if this animal is SOMEWHAT used to this process it will be less stressful for them in the long run. So I guess that my opinion is that these animals should be left alone for the most part but should also have some interaction with their keepers as they will have to interact with us at some point.
Anyhow ... that's my 5 1/2 cents worth!!
Dyesub Dave.
Now he's in a 175 gal. flexarium with a Ficus Tree and Hibiscus Bush. He doesn't usually show any interest in leaving this enclosure and generally runs away if I try to get him out. However I have noticed lately that if I leave the screen open he comes right to the edge of the opening on his tree. If I slowly put my hand in he looks at it but doesn't climb on it but also doesn't run away. ( Might be because I often feed him silkworms by hand. ) He even allows me to stroke his chin without moving away. After that I just let him be and figure that he'll let me know when he wants to come out.
While I understand both points of view in this scenario I believe there has to be a happy medium. I'm not sure that you're going to totally tame a prey animal who even though captive bred still has instincts intact and we probably shouldn't even try to do it. But on the other hand if you're going to treat these like wild animals then they should be left in the wild without our interaction at all.
While in our care this animal will at some point need to be picked up to be moved to another enclosure, taken to the vet, need their enclosure sterilized or for a number of other reasons. It seems to make sense that if this animal is SOMEWHAT used to this process it will be less stressful for them in the long run. So I guess that my opinion is that these animals should be left alone for the most part but should also have some interaction with their keepers as they will have to interact with us at some point.
Anyhow ... that's my 5 1/2 cents worth!!
Dyesub Dave.
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