antibiotic via fogger?

[SerpeRoma]

Hey everyone, I purchased a female veiled chameleon a couple months ago from LLLReptile and turned out having a respiratory infection. The vet gave me a very diluted antibiotic called Fortaz and told me to inject 3ml every 3 days over her shoulder. The chameleon is very young (I guess around 3 months) and it's both hard and heart-braking to give her injections. Today most of the antibiotic came out and the last time it created a "sack" of liquid under her skin.

I know that to administrate antibiotics on baby (humans) it's better to use an Aerosol (not sure it's the same name in English) so that the antibiotic can be breathed instead of injected. I was wondering if that could be a possible solution and if any of you knows if this antibiotic can only be injected or not. I was thinking to use a cricket house (plastic container) and the fogger to concentrate the fog in a closed environment.

The injections should have started working after 3-4 applications, but I'm at the 5th and the chameleon doesn't seem to feel better.

Should I just keep traumatizing her with injections or should I try this alternative?

 

[kinyonga]

Are you injecting it into the arm? I'm not sure what you mean by "over the shoulder".
I'm not sure but I think 3ml is a lot.

 

[SerpeRoma]

Are you injecting it into the arm? I'm not sure what you mean by "over the shoulder".
I'm not sure but I think 3ml is a lot.

I'm injecting under the skin right above the arm, not sure it's 3ml, I'll post pictures of the syringe and the injection spot (you will see the mark that the liquid sack left)

 

[kinyonga]

This shows you where to do the injection...


I'm all not sure the dose is right. I'm not a vet and only speak from experience.

 

[SerpeRoma]

I'm not sure if she's too tiny to inject on her arm or if it's the antibiotic that has to be subcutaneous, anyway I called the vet and she told me that nebulizing antibiotics doesn't work with reptiles because they can hold their breath for long periods of time and there's no way to know how much of it they would breath in..

 

[kinyonga]

The vet is right about them not breathing. Try put in them to sleep with a mask on their face...they often quit breathing and we would put them in a jar with the mask over the top of the jar!

 

[Mendez]

Today most of the antibiotic came out and the last time it created a "sack" of liquid under her skin.

Once you inject the medication, while still keeping her arm (or whatever part of the body you are injecting) pinned down, you need to massage the area for a good bit of time. When I gave my jackson's injections, I had the same thing happen once as soon as he moved his arm. Their skin is not nearly as elastic as human skin, so massaging the area for a good 10 seconds should help disperse the medication into the body so it doesn't come back out.

Should I just keep traumatizing her with injections or should I try this alternative?

Yes, as much as it sucks to keep traumatizing her, it is the right thing to do. You should never stop using an antibiotic until you have used up the recommended amount. You do not want it to become resistant to the antibiotics.

Her arm might be too skinny or it might not. If you can pinch her skin enough to get it away from the bone, then you should have enough space to work with.

I got to go, dinner is ready. I'll hop back on later. @kinyonga taught me a good tip about how to inject them while keeping them still enough. She definitely knows her stuff.

 

[kinyonga]

Thanks for the compliment! I still have lots to learn though!

 

[Mendez]

The vet is right about them not breathing. Try put in them to sleep with a mask on their face...they often quit breathing and we would put them in a jar with the mask over the top of the jar!

Didn't know this. Pretty cool!

 

[Mendez]

The injections should have started working after 3-4 applications, but I'm at the 5th and the chameleon doesn't seem to feel better.

What leads you to believe that she isn't getting better? What symptoms does she still have?

Also, what humidity levels are you providing her day/night?

 

[SerpeRoma]

What leads you to believe that she isn't getting better? What symptoms does she still have?

Also, what humidity levels are you providing her day/night?

She’s actually getting worse, she’s now keeping her nose up and eyes closed most of the day.. she wasnt at this stage when I went to the vet. Her humidity is 30-40% during the day and 80-90% at night

 

[Mendez]

At what temperatures? You can try to reduce the humidity a bit for her. Aiming for the lower end at 75% should be sufficient. It will allow things to dry out faster. Ofc going too low will cause stress and make the infection worse.

I'm sorry to hear that the infection is getting worse. Have you contacted your vet letting them know that its getting worse? You can also check out some other vets if you feel like this vet isn't knowledgeable on chams. The infection should be getting better.

@kinyonga are there different strains or types of RI? Could this medication be hit or miss depending on said strain?

 

[kinyonga]

What temperature is the cage at? Basking?

What were the symptoms that made you take it to the vet in the first place?

Have you been feeding it anything? If so, is it eating on its own?
Drinking on its own?

 

[kinyonga]

I'm not sure if there are different strains of infection...but it wouldn't surprise me. Unless hey can get a sample of the bacteria, they won't be able to be sure if it's the right antibiotic IMHO.

 

[SerpeRoma]

At what temperatures?

80 basking spot and mid 70s towards the bottom

I'm sorry to hear that the infection is getting worse. Have you contacted your vet letting them know that its getting worse? You can also check out some other vets if you feel like this vet isn't knowledgeable on chams. The infection should be getting better

I called her to ask her about an alternative to the injection and told her it was getting worse. She said that we can try a different antibiotic but she said that all the chams brought in from this clutch -or at least all the babies from LllReptile brought in recently- had the same issue and ended up not making it. Not even one that they kept in the clinic for closer attention.

What were the symptoms that made you take it to the vet in the first place?

Have you been feeding it anything? If so, is it eating on its own?
Drinking on its own?

I took her to the vet as soon as I saw her keeping an eye closed and seen her pointing the nose up once.

I've been feeding her regularly, but she hasn't been eating as much, just saw her eating a couple crickets. She does drink when she gets a little more active.

 

[bruce the cham]

i was going to get a cham from lllreptiles but they were doing a lot wrong plus i heard most had upper respiratory infections mbd or other sickness so i got mine from predator reptiles

 

[kinyonga]

Can you post a couple more photos of her from the side please.

So what symptoms is she having now?
Eyes open now? Nose in the air? Gaping at all when the nose is in the air? Not active?

 

[SerpeRoma]

Can you post a couple more photos of her from the side please.

So what symptoms is she having now?
Eyes open now? Nose in the air? Gaping at all when the nose is in the air? Not active?

She hasn't been active at all in the last 2 days, eyes closed most of the day, nose up and occasionally gaping with the nose up. Also her eyes are sunken in since yesterday.. I feel like she's giving up.

 

[SerpeRoma]

Honestly she's looking worse everyday, I've been doing everything I could possibly do, I spent a lot of money for vet bills and stuff, but nothing seems to work..

 

[kinyonga]

When they hold the lower half of the belly in like that it's usually not good news....sorry to have to tell you that. However, not being a vet, I can't give you a reason why she might be doing it.