Any cham nutritionists out there? Got Questions!

[Ceycham]

Reading up on best foods options I've learned that the larvae of the black soldier fly is being touted as a sort of superfood due to it's huge calcium content and the close to ideal calcium phosphorus ratio. So good you don't have to dust.

So..suppose I feed them as the main daily diet, with other varieties of insect thrown in just for variety, do you think it would be necessary to bother dusting all the other insects, since he's already getting such a supply of calcium?

 

[nick barta]

No one insect should be the primary insect, split the diet into 5+ insects that offer not only protein, mineral, and and vitamin variance, but size,color and movement. BSF larvae are expensive, especially if you have 1 cham, as they pupate quickly.

CHEERS!

Nick

 

[Ceycham]

I'm ok with the expense of the BSF, and I do intend quite a varied diet, but I don't want to overload on the calcium by dusting when the BSF is soo high in calcium. Plus dusting is not always easy on some of the flying insects, for example

 

[Ceycham]

I kind of anticipated his daily intake being BSF plus some house flies or crickets or mealworms or grasshoppers or whatever else I have on hand

 

[Rogue]

I kind of anticipated his daily intake being BSF plus some house flies or crickets or mealworms or grasshoppers or whatever else I have on hand

What kind of Cham are you researching this for?

 

[Ceycham]

What kind of Cham are you researching this for?

Hi, He's a juvenile veiled

 

[Rogue]

Hi, He's a juvenile veiled

Ah, ok. A veiled will also need a diet including vegetation. My understanding is you can use the same that you use to gutload with.

 

[Ceycham]

Oh? I had not heard that, other than gut loading insects with it. But I'm game... How does one offer vegetation to a chameleon? I have read that some will eat plant leaves when they are in need of water, but I've no live plants in with him, just a fake tree

 

[Rogue]

Oh? I had not heard that, other than gut loading insects with it. But I'm game... How does one offer vegetation to a chameleon? I have read that some will eat plant leaves when they are in need of water, but I've no live plants in with him, just a fake tree

I personally do not have a veiled, but I believe @Kristen Wilkins or some other keepers can better answer that

 

[Ceycham]

I personally do not have a veiled, but I believe @Kristen Wilkins or some other keepers can better answer that

Look forward to any and all input! I'm all ears

 

[jamest0o0]

Veileds mainly benefit from the moisture in vegetation. I don't believe they absorb a whole lot from it as far as nutrition goes. Not 100% sure on that though.

BSFL are a great feeder. They eat just about anything soft enough, but unfortuunately dont hold much in the gut, so you wont benefit from gutloading as much as you would from crickets/roaches. You will still want to dust other insects because the point is to balance the phosphorus/calcium ration, not to just give your animal as much calcium as possible. BSFL are quite small relative to an adult Cham, I can't imagine trying to feed them as a staple. They can also be difficult to digest in large amounts. Worms also have higher than average fat content.

So they are awesome for a couple times a week, but they wouldn't make a good staple. Crickets and roaches staple, but add another 4-6 feeders for variety.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

I personally do not have a veiled, but I believe @Kristen Wilkins or some other keepers can better answer that

Welcome @Ceycham . So @jamest0o0 pretty much covered BSFL . For veggies some will eat them some won't but certainly offer . The little girls tend to eat the veggies and such . For worms silkies would be a great staple very balance . For best gut loading insects crickets and roaches are correct .

 

[Ceycham]

Thanks for all the great info! I will look into silkies and maybe the roaches. I'm beyond disgusted with crickets and thought I'd buy them a meal at a time so as not to have to actually keep them in the house. Gah, the stink!

 

[Ceycham]

Welcome @Ceycham . So @jamest0o0 pretty much covered BSFL . For veggies some will eat them some won't but certainly offer . The little girls tend to eat the veggies and such . For worms silkies would be a great staple very balance . For best gut loading insects crickets and roaches are correct .

What kind of veggies do you offer?

 

[LucyLoo]

For me, live plants are the best way to get my veiled to eat any kind of vegetation, she can't resist. She has taken (at least) a bite out of most of her live plants; schleffera (many, many bites out of this one), hibiscus, crotons, prayer plant, jade, dracaena, and ficus...not her pothos or hoya plants that I know of though.

When i give her feeders/my beetle colony my leftover fruit or veggies, I leave her door open and she usually comes over and checks out what I have. She LOVES strawberries (I think maybe the bright color attracts her). I only give her a little as a treat here and there, same with cherries and blueberries once in a while too.

 

[Ceycham]

For me, live plants are the best way to get my veiled to eat any kind of vegetation, she can't resist. She has taken (at least) a bite out of most of her live plants; schleffera (many, many bites out of this one), hibiscus, crotons, prayer plant, jade, dracaena, and ficus...not her pothos or hoya plants that I know of though.

When i give her feeders/my beetle colony my leftover fruit or veggies, I leave her door open and she usually comes over and checks out what I have. She LOVES strawberries (I think maybe the bright color attracts her). I only give her a little as a treat here and there, same with cherries and blueberries once in a while too.

Just recently tried replacing his fake tree with a live plant. He didn't seem to care for it. I think he preferred the sturdiness of the fake branches and the smaller leaves. The new plant was rather dense with tough leaves. He seldom moved onto it from his bridge vine, and finally I took it out and put his fake tree back, which he climbs around on freely again. Also, he doesn't want anything to do with me at all, and coming to me doesn't look promising, lol. Perhaps I can drape some tasty small plants in there somewhere with him.

 

[Andee]

The larvae have the calcium to phosphorus ratio you have heard about when you have heard about BSF. When the pupate into flies they lose a lot of nutrients and don't eat. And most adult chams don't show a huge amount of interest in the larvae in the end.

 

[LucyLoo]

It jas taken me ALOT of trial and error with plants; I have killed hundreds of dollars worth this year finding the right ones for her enclosure and learning where to keep them where they dont get too much/too little light or water. If yours didnt like that one, maybe you can try another?

What kind was it? When I first started using them I bought a few on the "safe list" that were not.....the best climbing or perching plants (bromeliads). They looked great, but ended up rotting from misting/not enough light from being hiddem by the pothos.

I know a lot of people have luck with pothos and schleffera; if you do want to try again maybe yours will like one of those

 

[Goose502]

BSFL unfortunately for many reasons are not an option for a staple feeder. As previously mentioned, they aren't terribly cheap, though that's only an issue for some people, the real problem is there size. You would have to feed 50 plus of them a day to a large male veiled. Though they aren't a great staple, they are an amazing, stimulating treat. I'm a firm believer in a natural vivarium, and doing such allows you to dump BSFL right into the substrate. They will burrow down quickly, but in a few days, you have adult flies popping up a few times a day, for months! Chameleons (most sizes) can't resist the hunt. I add 50 to 100 BSFL to my substrate about once every 2 months. They help stimulate plant growth, and then feed my panther chameleon. Only problem is opening the vivarium if a fly or two is buzzing around. They move swiftly, but usually last only an hour or two before they're eaten. This goes for most feeders. I've had tomato horn worms turn into moths, and super worms turn into large beetles, all within the cage. I consider them treats, as they are increadibly stimulating for a reptile on the hunt.

 

[LucyLoo]

Also, i mainly try to use the plants to fill in hiding spots and help make humidity pockets, then use the branches and vines for pathways. Maybe you could try a new branch where the fake plant is and then fill in around it with foliage?