Anyone have similar experience with FlChams?

[Gideonk]

In March of 2020, I purchased a male juvenile veiled chameleon from FL Chams, one of the "designer veiled" with "Jethro" as the sire. He is now about 14 months old and although shedding often, his coloring is still that of a common veiled cham, nothing like the picture of the Jethro sire. After about 9 months of owning him, I called Mike at FlCham and asked him when I might start seeing a color change. He told me about 18 months. So I guess it's still waiting to happen, but based on my subsequent experience with flchams, I'm beginning to have my doubts since at this point my guy in no way resembles Jethro (images of both my guy and Jethro are attached; Jethro is the one with the yellow coloring).

Since then, I have called, emailed, and texted Mike with a few other questions, as I'd like to do business with him again in the future. But NOT ONCE has he returned my call, email or text. After getting the silent treatment, I texted him, wondering what kind of customer service he's providing when he simply ignores legitimate questions from actual customers, who look to him as the "expert." A few weeks later, I sent him another text, saying that if he continued to just ignore me, I'd post on the forum and suggest that maybe people should not do business with FlChams.

I am baffled. He seems like a very reputable and knowledgeable person, but I was a little turned off, when I first spoke with him after purchasing my cham, that he was in a great rush because he also has a real estate business. I don't care what other business he has; when I ask a question, I don't want to hear about his "other businesses"; it's irrelevant.

I'm at my wit's end trying to communicate with FL Chams. Just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience. I don't wish to say bad things about him, but his behavior is not encouraging me to ever do business with him again.

 

[AmandaS]

I would not do business with FLChams, but that is because I have read other threads on this site that have made my decision as such.

As per the coloration of your chameleon, he looks to be relaxed. What does he look like at night or when he gets fired up?

 

[Ramrod]

In March of 2020, I purchased a male juvenile veiled chameleon from FL Chams, one of the "designer veiled" with "Jethro" as the sire. He is now about 14 months old and although shedding often, his coloring is still that of a common veiled cham, nothing like the picture of the Jethro sire. After about 9 months of owning him, I called Mike at FlCham and asked him when I might start seeing a color change. He told me about 18 months. So I guess it's still waiting to happen, but based on my subsequent experience with flchams, I'm beginning to have my doubts since at this point my guy in no way resembles Jethro (images of both my guy and Jethro are attached; Jethro is the one with the yellow coloring).

Since then, I have called, emailed, and texted Mike with a few other questions, as I'd like to do business with him again in the future. But NOT ONCE has he returned my call, email or text. After getting the silent treatment, I texted him, wondering what kind of customer service he's providing when he simply ignores legitimate questions from actual customers, who look to him as the "expert." A few weeks later, I sent him another text, saying that if he continued to just ignore me, I'd post on the forum and suggest that maybe people should not do business with FlChams.

I am baffled. He seems like a very reputable and knowledgeable person, but I was a little turned off, when I first spoke with him after purchasing my cham, that he was in a great rush because he also has a real estate business. I don't care what other business he has; when I ask a question, I don't want to hear about his "other businesses"; it's irrelevant.

I'm at my wit's end trying to communicate with FL Chams. Just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience. I don't wish to say bad things about him, but his behavior is not encouraging me to ever do business with him again.

Well you can't expect an offspring to look just like the dam or sire, just as humans don't look just like thier parents.
That being said; the only issue I have had was when I purchased a veiled and called to get his hatch date they had no idea.
Go figure

 

[Gideonk]

I would not do business with FLChams, but that is because I have read other threads on this site that have made my decision as such.

As per the coloration of your chameleon, he looks to be relaxed. What does he look like at night or when he gets fired up?

When he gets "fired up" his colors are more vibrant, but no resemblance to Jethro.. I would thnk that if he is in fact a "son of Jethro" he wouldl show some hint of his lineage, i.e., some yellow in his coloration--no sing of that.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

I'm at my wit's end trying to communicate with FL Chams. Just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience. I don't wish to say bad things about him, but his behavior is not encouraging me to ever do business with him again.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/search/1067195/?q=flchams&o=relevance

 

[CasqueAbove]

I have come to believe they use this as a marketing tool.
I have also heard that the babies are often farmed and not bread.
Past that as mentioned I am not sure if you could breed to get that as it looks. I would expect it more like the pied gene. Might show a little, might show a lot.

 

[Alexander1]

Chameleons will continue to change in coloration as they age, it’s never a sure shit as far as genetics go, it takes multiple generations to start to hone in on specific traits. Not to defend anyone’s customer service , but unfortunately that’s how it goea sometimes. My veiled took a couple years to get to his ultimate color while fired up!

 

[jannb]

I believe the color depends on how they are kept, no mater where they come from. My veileds normally start to color up around 4 months old.

Sage 4 months old

Hammy 4 months old

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Chameleons will continue to change in coloration as they age, it’s never a sure shit as far as genetics go, it takes multiple generations to start to hone in on specific traits. Not to defend anyone’s customer service , but unfortunately that’s how it goea sometimes. My veiled took a couple years to get to his ultimate color while fired up!

Is that universal or species-specific?

 

[Gideonk]

My male veiled "Helmut" is now 15 months old and shows none of the vibrant coloring of Sage or Hammy, and he's supposed to be the son of a very colorful sire. I think I provide Helmut with the best conditions, so I'm beginning to wonder if FlChams was not being honest about the cham's lineage.

 

[jannb]

My male veiled "Helmut" is now 15 months old and shows none of the vibrant coloring of Sage or Hammy, and he's supposed to be the son of a very colorful sire. I think I provide Helmut with the best conditions, so I'm beginning to wonder if FlChams was not being honest about the cham's lineage.

My guys are very well loved, respected and treated like a family member. They get the very best of care with routine vets checks and fecal exams. They get outside time when weather allows. I feed them a large variety of well gutlaoaded feeders and they all free range.

 

[GrayMadder]

My guys are very well loved, respected and treated like a family member. They get the very best of care with routine vets checks and fecal exams. They get outside time when weather allows. I feed them a large variety of well gutlaoaded feeders and they all free range.

View attachment 296164

Beautiful colors!!

 

[jamest0o0]

You can't blame them for the animal not looking like it's sire. However I have heard many issues from them, along with coccidia.

I believe the color depends on how they are kept, no mater where they come from. My veileds normally start to color up around 4 months old.

Sage 4 months old
View attachment 296117

Hammy 4 months old

View attachment 296118

Not that they're not beautiful, but it would be genetic, not how they are kept(within reason). Camera skills also play a role . There are people here with gorgeous Petco chams and they weren't kept very well at all. Many wild caught are half dead when they come in too.

I saw this argument with someone making cat food for sale, said they had the largest cats because of their catcood formula. Lol nope. Sure horrible circumstances might stunt or cause issues, but I'd say it's overwhelmingly genetic otherwise. Many of the world's best athletes came from impoverished conditions, dunno if that relates to chameleon's colors, but shows how much of it is genetic lottery.

 

[jannb]

You can't blame them for the animal not looking like it's sire. However I have heard many issues from them, along with coccidia.


Not that they're not beautiful, but it would be genetic, not how they are kept(within reason). Camera skills also play a role . There are people here with gorgeous Petco chams and they weren't kept very well at all. Many wild caught are half dead when they come in too.

I saw this argument with someone making cat food for sale, said they had the largest cats because of their catcood formula. Lol nope. Sure horrible circumstances might stunt or cause issues, but I'd say it's overwhelmingly genetic otherwise. Many of the world's best athletes came from impoverished conditions, dunno if that relates to chameleon's colors, but shows how much of it is genetic lottery.

I’ve had several rescues from Pet Smart and from people who have no idea where they came from since they got them from Craigslist and so forth. Some people have my babies that I breed with a long line of gorgeous chameleons and theirs doesn’t show nice color. That’s why I think it depends on how they are kept and how they are treated. A happy chameleon tends to be more beautiful .

 

[jamest0o0]

I’ve had several rescues from Pet Smart and form people who have no idea where they came from since they got them from Craigslist and so forth. Some people have my babies that I breed with a long line of gorgeous chameleons and theirs doesn’t show nice color. That’s why I think it depends on how they are kept and how they are treated. A happy chameleon tends to be more beautiful .

You're not wrong for sure, unhappy chams tend to not look great. I'm saying when they're kept right, most of them turn out beautiful and genetics play a big role in that.

 

[Beman]

I would never buy from FLchams from what I have read about them. I think if you have questions do not bother asking them. Post in the forum and the community will help you.

Genetics play into it largely but also their personality and what causes them to fire up. The image of the sire is of him fully fired up. Some will do this in response to another chameleon or their reflection. With my 3 I have seen them fire up as young as 7 months old.

I have 3 males. 2 from petco. 2 will fire up only when they see another cham. 1 never fires up unless he sees something he is not familiar with like a new stick or a laundry basket but has no issue with seeing the other males.

Resting colors and fired up colors are totally different and IMO is totally based on their genetics and quality of care. Also resting colors from male to male are totally different same with fired up colors from one to another.

Example... My boy Beman who could care less about the other boys but gets spooked by a laundry basket.
Beman is an almost 3 year old Petco baby. Resting and fired up...

View media item 53276
View media item 52012

Bentley 9months old another Petco baby. Resting and fired up...

2-3-21_1

• Beman
• Feb 3, 2021

My spunky baby. Almost 8 months old and 68 grams.

3-16-21_2

• Beman
• Mar 16, 2021
• 1

Ahhhhhh I see Beman on your hand! You're cheating on me mom!!!!

And Bane my baby I got from Jannb 12 months old. resting and fired up...

1-19-21

• Beman
• Jan 19, 2021

Mom, my cup is empty!

A little side eye with a splash of attitude!

• Beman
• Jan 6, 2021
• 8
• male veiled chameleon

Bane showing off

 

[Bamajoker]

Flchams is a no go. Mike no longer breeds chameleons and these “Sires” are long gone and he has been using these pictures for years.
in fact he drop ships his Chams from a breeder in Pennsylvania.
There was actually someone I seen the other day post a picture unboxing a panther from him missing a damn leg...

Mike is almost impossible to contact and A very big hassle. I myself had got a driskel from him and you get the same results from any random veiled you purchase.

 

[Gideonk]

So it turns out that Mike and FlChams is a scam. If what you're saying is true, then Mike is running a bogus business. I am really upset about this and feel that Mike needs to be held accountable. On his impressive website he talks all about "working with chameleons" for years to get the best color, blah blah blah, and it turns out it's all a lie???? How can this guy stay in business, and are we the only ones who have been scammed in this way? About 6 months after I purchased the veiled cham from the "Jethro" bloodline (about 10 months old) I called MIke (he actually picked up) and asked him when my cham would start showing its Jethro coloring (or something even remotely similar). He told me that it would take a year to a year and a half. From what you're telling me now, it was a blatant lie.

His website is still selling "premium veileds" and a large variety of chams (nearly all "out of stock). I don't know about you, but I am pissed off about this clear case of fraud. Mike should not be in business. What are your thoughts about this? I don't know what to do, but I'd like to do something. He should not be allowed to continue defrauding people.

FlChams is based in Florida, the nation's capital of fraudulent businesses, so I shouldn't be too surprised.

 

[CasqueAbove]

So it turns out that Mike and FlChams is a scam. If what you're saying is true, then Mike is running a bogus business. I am really upset about this and feel that Mike needs to be held accountable. On his impressive website he talks all about "working with chameleons" for years to get the best color, blah blah blah, and it turns out it's all a lie???? How can this guy stay in business, and are we the only ones who have been scammed in this way? About 6 months after I purchased the veiled cham from the "Jethro" bloodline (about 10 months old) I called MIke (he actually picked up) and asked him when my cham would start showing its Jethro coloring (or something even remotely similar). He told me that it would take a year to a year and a half. From what you're telling me now, it was a blatant lie.

His website is still selling "premium veileds" and a large variety of chams (nearly all "out of stock). I don't know about you, but I am pissed off about this clear case of fraud. Mike should not be in business. What are your thoughts about this? I don't know what to do, but I'd like to do something. He should not be allowed to continue defrauding people.

FlChams is based in Florida, the nation's capital of fraudulent businesses, so I shouldn't be too surprised.

This is the tough part of this business. Unfortunately it is hard to track, worse the agencies are hugely under funded. His site is not a "lie" in the legal sense, though very miss represented.
1) "For Years" like 2 or 20 ?
2) " For best color" OK so he bread two colors he liked. It is vague at best.
3) Bloodline. This is the one. We would need DNA to prove this. Right now we can't. It is like saying I can fly, I just choose not to.

He would need to be investigated and proved.

You did the right thing coming here. This is a strong community and the only way he will stop or slow is through community knowledge.

 

[Gideonk]

Thank you for your response. I completely agree that there is no point in going after fL Chams in any legal manner. Florida, sadly, is the land of scams, and the authorities are few and far between. I once got scammed by a Florida-based company selling timeshares in Puerto Vallarta and got nowhere trying to get justice. Whether or not what Mike is doing is a true "scam" or not is irrelevant. He is lying to the buying public. He talks about "working with a number of bloodlines"- FALSE. He says that he welcomes calls and emails and will respond-FALSE. He says he does all his own breeding-FALSE. I guess all I can do is post a warning on this forum not to do business with FLChams. But it's pretty outrageous that he is still advertising things that may have been true years ago, but no more. At the least, he should remove any reference to his "exclusive bloodlines" as well as all the photos of "Jethro, driscoll, etc." I have emailed Mike and told him as much. I don't expect to hear back from him.