are chameleons "dumb" ?

[Carlton]

I have never heard a chameleon talk except for Rango...so yeah I think they are dumb

They aren't "dumb" in that way either! Many vocalize...just not with a pharynx or vocal chords. Talking wouldn't do much for an animal with no external ear.

Dumb is simply not the right word. Dumb implies the animal makes deliberate mistakes for some cognitive reason. If it happens to be deceived by skin heat sensors that can't evaluate artificial light correctly that is entirely out of their voluntary control. Chams are as smart as they need to be...in the habitat they evolved to be part of. Haul them out of their natural place and into an artificial one and you are going to see some mis-matched behavior.

 

[bradleymarky]

my panther still climbs on the mesh on the side of his reptibreeze..even though he has fallen from the top to the bottom several times.......you`d of thought he would realise by now..but no he doesnt

 

[DavidBuchan]

my panther still climbs on the mesh on the side of his reptibreeze..even though he has fallen from the top to the bottom several times.......you`d of thought he would realise by now..but no he doesnt

Do you reckon he hurt himself though? Maybe he just likes a challenge. I've fallen off loads of things but I'm not dumb....relatively speaking.....

 

[bradleymarky]

Do you reckon he hurt himself though? Maybe he just likes a challenge. I've fallen off loads of things but I'm not dumb....relatively speaking.....

he has fallen from top to bottom of the viv which is 4 foot, he normally shakes his head and tries it again....when i see him walking on the viv side i normally run out the bedroom before i hear the thud

 

[Texas Panther Man]

I dont how "dumb" they are. But how many of you out there could. Break out of an egg under the ground dig your way out. And then feed and care for yourself in a totally foreign land to you. Thats what a newly hatched cham has to do on its first day on earth just to survive! I think they are def tougher than all of us, thats for sure.

 

[ChameleonsInMyHouse]

as many of you have heard before "if you put a frog in a pot of water "and slowly raise the temperature, they would not feel the change but will still become physically harmed and die. is it logical to use this with reptiles as well? of course!

Chameleons will thermoregulate themselves if they have to, I 110% agree with all of Hoj's first post. they are intelligently designed creatures made for nature and not cages.

So maybe it is the fact that your basking perch is a little to close to the bulb, along with the factor that your bulb may be too hot.

Chameleons will do what they do when basking, they turn different colors on each side, one side will be significantly lighter than the other, meaning the lighter skin repels the heat, as the darker skin absorbs the heat, and i would guess the flatening of the body has to do with regulating the body's temperature.

Chameleons also show one major sign along with many reptiles to let their owner know its too hot in their enclosure. they'll gape their mouths open. they can also show signs of disfunction or a delusional look in their eyes if temps are too too hot.

but for the most part, chameleons arent dumb, and in my opinion. no animal is dumb. think about how much shit an ant can do that we cant. lol, i think we're the dumb ones sometimes



[EDIT] and if a chameleon looks like it is dumb, remember that chams (in my opinion and experience) are of the most personal herps you can get. they are full of personally, and can come off like they are pathetic retarded pets, but im sure they think the same when watching us at times lol

 

[DavidBuchan]

I 110% agree with all of Hoj's first post. they are intelligently designed creatures made for nature and not cages.

No offence meant but I can't help myself. 110%? intelligently designed? There's a joke in here somewhere right?

 

[seanUTD]

i like to think of it as being similar to putting a frog in boiling water.

A frog will try to escape boiling water because the temperature change is immediate. If you place a frog in room temp water and then gradually boil it the frog will not notice and will die without freaking out.

I think its the same...immediate change and the cham would move...gradual overheating to burning would only occur i the heat is hitting a non sensitive area suh as the bottom of their bodies while the top part (which is naturally exposed more often to the sun) has the required reactivness to tell the chameleon to cool down if it gradually gets too hot.

could be wrong...just my take on it.

Is there a hint of experience in this... inquisitive minds want to know... I sure hope not lol

 

[fluxlizard]

yeah I mean nah it's not really like slowly boiling a frog.

It's sort of the opposite- the heat source not warming the core of the lizard fast enough while the outside of the lizard is seared.

If you warm the temp slowly like the boiling frog analogy, you will find your lizard does not get burned- because his core will have time to warm and then he will know it is time to leave.

The burns happen when you try to warm the lizard quickly and it sits and waits for its core to heat up, but the skin heats much faster.

Or rather you may not be trying to do that, but the wattage of your bulb and distance and ambient temperature combine to create the problem. Really it's almost a problem of too little heated area and too much cool area.

That's the opposite of the frog analogy.

Don't mean to be picky but it's a big difference to understanding the needs of the lizard.

 

[fluxlizard]

re: smart or dumb-

There are different kinds of intelligence. I'd say any creature that is successful in it's natural environment (defined as surviving and reproducing) is behaving intelligently, regardless of it's cognizance or ability to perform successfully in an alien or artificial environment.

Really the test here is whether *we* are able to intelligently design an artificial environment that allows our lizard to behave intelligently.

So the real question is are we dumb?

At least when it comes to our husbandry- the lizard has proven by surviving generations for millenia without us that it is not dumb.

 

[Ekaj13]

If you think about it, humans are the real "dumb" animals. We kill each other on massive scale for no intelligent reason, we destroy the very environment that keeps us alive, we commit cruelty just for cruelty's sake.

And I will now attempt to bite my tongue in regards to the intelligent design comments.

 

[DavidBuchan]

i like to think of it as being similar to putting a frog in boiling water.

I think its the same...immediate change and the cham would move...gradual overheating to burning would only occur i the heat is hitting a non sensitive area suh as the bottom of their bodies while the top part (which is naturally exposed more often to the sun) has the required reactivness to tell the chameleon to cool down if it gradually gets too hot.

could be wrong...just my take on it.

The analogy here is based simply on the fact that the animal will take no action to prevent death.

yeah I mean nah it's not really like slowly boiling a frog.

It's sort of the opposite- the heat source not warming the core of the lizard fast enough while the outside of the lizard is seared.

If you warm the temp slowly like the boiling frog analogy, you will find your lizard does not get burned- because his core will have time to warm and then he will know it is time to leave.

The burns happen when you try to warm the lizard quickly and it sits and waits for its core to heat up, but the skin heats much faster.

Don't mean to be picky but it's a big difference to understanding the needs of the lizard.

So you misunderstood the original analogys intention, Flux. While explaining again what actually goes on with the cham.

re: smart or dumb-

There are different kinds of intelligence. I'd say any creature that is successful in it's natural environment (defined as surviving and reproducing) is behaving intelligently, regardless of it's cognizance or ability to perform successfully in an alien or artificial environment.
So the real question is are we dumb?

It's a sidetrack of course because the thread was never really intended to be about the difference between intelligence and dumbness, but you are quite right - there are different kinds of intelligence. It's even more semantic fun if you start using more words like 'smart', 'wise', 'stupid', 'foolish', etc.