Baby cham with SEVERE MBD - need help!

Phoenix1991

Phoenix1991

New Member
Hello everyone! I am a vet tech that has recently acquired a chameleon that was dropped off from a client that could no longer care for him. I know VERY little about him because he was actually dropped off to the PetSmart associates and eventually made his way to me. At first glance it was very clear that he was not normal. After a small amount of research it's pretty obvious he has MBD and may have been suffering for quite some time...

I have always wanted a chameleon and although I am realizing that chameleons require A LOT of time and effort (if you are to take care of them appropriately) I am willing to do anything to help him regain his health and hopefully live a close to normal rest of his life.

Your Chameleon - Veiled chameleon of unknown age, unknown sex. Have had for 5 days now.
  • Handling - Can't tell if he really likes to be handled at this point because he's so helpless but I would like to get him used to being handled granted he makes it through this difficult time. I realize for the most part they do better with less handling but I would like to not be hissed at either ?Right now I'm focused on him rebuilding his strength and only handle when having to hand feed.
  • Feeding - Syringe feeding 1 ml of Flukers ReptaBoost split into 2 feedings AM and PM - would it better to feed all in the morning? I don't know his exact size but I worry both about not feeding him enough and feeding him too much... I tried to hand feed small crickets but his mouth is almost completely agape at times and he is only able to swallow and even that seems pretty difficult. :(
  • Supplements - Was giving a dash of RepCal calcium with D3 mixed into ReptaBoost before reading that this should only be given once every 2 weeks. Regular calcium without D3 is not offered at my pets store but I was able to find Flukers liquid calcium. Is this appropriate? How much liquid calcium drops should I be giving per day? Is it possible to overdose calcium at this time? I want to give him enough to start rebuilding his bones but don't want to overdo it either.
  • Watering - Misting as much as I could at first to help correct any dehydration, Now about 3 times a day for ~2 minutes. First thing in the morning, middle of the afternoon and before bed.
  • Fecal Description - Has only had one poo in 5 days, watery brown poo and white urate.
  • History - Entirely unknown.
Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - 10-20 gallon glass enclosure, unknown brand as this was in the storage of my veterinary clinic. If he continues to do well I would like to get a more appropriate, larger, caged enclosure.
  • Lighting - ZooMed Mini Combo Deep Dome Dual Lamp Fixture: Thrive 13 watt UVB and ZooMed 60 W heat lamp during the day, was using a similar 60 W 'night light' (red) because I was worried he would get too cold at night before I read that it is unnecessary.
  • Temperature - I still need to get a new temperature gage as I am not sure the one I have is accurate but the middle of the enclosure reads 72. I worry that he is not able to regulate appropriately since he definitely cannot climb to warmer spots, much less ambulate around on the ground floor.
  • Humidity - Humidity seems more accurate as it changes appropriately when I mist. The lowest it gets before I need to mist is 40 while the highest I like to get to before I stop misting is 70 (within the 'Tropical zone' on my hygrometer). I recently purchased the Thrive Misting Machine to help with the humidity if I was not able to spray but it does less misting and more just a steady stream of water which is just pooling in my enclosure. Any tips on this specific machine is much appreciated, ie. a way to create more of a mister?
  • Plants - No current plants since he is unable to climb but I have put branches and random clippings from outside to make him feel more at home/in the wild...
  • Placement - Bedside right now so I can keep a better eye on him, if he continues to do well I plan to move him closer to a window but in the corner for indirect light.
  • Location - Texas
The first day I got had him he looked very poorly and dehydrated. After spraying him he perked right up and opened his eyes.

After misting he is a little more active and that's when I attempt to feed him. When feeding he is pretty responsive sometimes with eyes open and wriggles. When not feeding he is unresponsive with eyes closed and at times I have to check that he is breathing because he looks like he's passed.

I originally had him on the coconut fiber bedding with bark going by what I was told at PetSmart and thought this might be more natural for him but have since put him on a paper towel to prevent the bedding from going in his open mouth.

His left forearm is probably the most deformed and when he tries to crawl around it mostly just scratches his own face :( That side of his face looks more discolored and crusted-like than the other side. He still has some strength in his hands if I set small branches in them but definitely more so in his rear legs - still not anywhere close to be able to support himself on a branch however.

Today, Day 5, was the first day I was worried he was having a tongue issue. At times he will extend it farther than ever before and it will remain outside his mouth for a time but has always went back in. Is this him regaining his tongue strength?? It's still not strong enough to take in an insect but I put drops of ReptaBoost on the top of his tongue for him to lap back in his mouth.

Here are some pictures of the little guy!


1603854415867.png

Day 1

1603854448130.png

Day 1 - after first misting :)

1603854522521.png

Day 2

1603854609194.png

Day 5 - first poop!

1603854561787.png

Day 5

1603854681864.png

Day 5 - Tongue eventually retracted into mouth

Any and all advice is much appreciated! I'd really like to turn this little guy's life around. He's suffered enough ❤️Thanks so much in advance!
 
Poor baby. ? Have you had one of the vets you work with check him/her out? That would be the first step to correcting needed supplementation and advising you on dosing.
Honestly, the majority of pet store employees (especially chain stores) really have limited knowledge about proper husbandry for chameleons. Most likely this poor baby ended up in such bad shape because the original keeper was poorly advised.
I understand the use of the aquarium tank as a temporary enclosure. It’s considered a ‘hospital’ enclosure. Keeping a dry towel (preferably one without little loops) on the floor would be better than paper towel as it will cushion any possible falls. If you could put a small plant like a pothos in there, that would be nice...leaves to drink from and hide/take shade in. While you’ll want to keep things relatively low, you should set up some little network of branches to climb on. The biggest improvement though is you’ll need a proper uvb light. Unfortunately the type you have isn’t able to provide adequate uvb levels past a few inches. You’ll need a T5 fixture with a 5.0 uvb bulb and ideally will be about 8-9” away from basking area. Usually it needs to be long enough to span the width of the enclosure. If your little one makes it, you’ll eventually be wanting to get a 2x2x4’ or equivalent enclosure, so may as well get a 24” T5.
With a glass tank, you are really going to have to watch temps and humidity very closely. Ideal humidity during the day is 30-50%. Ideal basking temp is no higher than 80 for such a little one.
Although the poor little one really doesn’t look good at all, I really wish the very best for you both.
 
Further to my last,

A vet visit is necessary for sure. The vet will probably give a calcium injection. I’d get a good uvb setup ASAP. In normal circumstances, you’d have some time to switch out that dual dome for a more appropriate light source, but given the advanced mbd, I’d say you should make getting a linear t5 a top priority. I know she’s in a shallow tank right now, but because she won’t climb, the new bulb will be 12” away.
 
You should have a vet to tell you how much liquid calcium to give the chameleon each day. I'm not a vet and what I'm telling you is from experience and from what I've seen and read.

I'm hoping I really is a male since then there will be no egglaying to have to worry about.

The tongue is likely weak because calcium deficiency causes weak muscles as well as depleting the calcium in the bones. That's partly why it will keep grabbing its own legs and face...it likely can't control the legs because of the combination of the weak bones and muscles. It's also not exhibiting trunkal lifting which goes along with the MBD too.

In addition to the liquid calcium you need to make sure that your supplements are right and the temperatures, feeding of the insects etc are spot on too.

Once it has recovered, proper husbandry should stop it from happening again. The deformities will remain for the most part though.

If it doesn't seem to have a food quality of life though the kindest thing is likely euthanasia.

Good luck with it.
 
Phoenix1991 said:
Hello everyone! I am a vet tech that has recently acquired a chameleon that was dropped off from a client that could no longer care for him. I know VERY little about him because he was actually dropped off to the PetSmart associates and eventually made his way to me. At first glance it was very clear that he was not normal. After a small amount of research it's pretty obvious he has MBD and may have been suffering for quite some time...

I have always wanted a chameleon and although I am realizing that chameleons require A LOT of time and effort (if you are to take care of them appropriately) I am willing to do anything to help him regain his health and hopefully live a close to normal rest of his life.

Your Chameleon - Veiled chameleon of unknown age, unknown sex. Have had for 5 days now.
  • Handling - Can't tell if he really likes to be handled at this point because he's so helpless but I would like to get him used to being handled granted he makes it through this difficult time. I realize for the most part they do better with less handling but I would like to not be hissed at either ?Right now I'm focused on him rebuilding his strength and only handle when having to hand feed.
  • Feeding - Syringe feeding 1 ml of Flukers ReptaBoost split into 2 feedings AM and PM - would it better to feed all in the morning? I don't know his exact size but I worry both about not feeding him enough and feeding him too much... I tried to hand feed small crickets but his mouth is almost completely agape at times and he is only able to swallow and even that seems pretty difficult. :(
  • Supplements - Was giving a dash of RepCal calcium with D3 mixed into ReptaBoost before reading that this should only be given once every 2 weeks. Regular calcium without D3 is not offered at my pets store but I was able to find Flukers liquid calcium. Is this appropriate? How much liquid calcium drops should I be giving per day? Is it possible to overdose calcium at this time? I want to give him enough to start rebuilding his bones but don't want to overdo it either.
  • Watering - Misting as much as I could at first to help correct any dehydration, Now about 3 times a day for ~2 minutes. First thing in the morning, middle of the afternoon and before bed.
  • Fecal Description - Has only had one poo in 5 days, watery brown poo and white urate.
  • History - Entirely unknown.
Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - 10-20 gallon glass enclosure, unknown brand as this was in the storage of my veterinary clinic. If he continues to do well I would like to get a more appropriate, larger, caged enclosure.
  • Lighting - ZooMed Mini Combo Deep Dome Dual Lamp Fixture: Thrive 13 watt UVB and ZooMed 60 W heat lamp during the day, was using a similar 60 W 'night light' (red) because I was worried he would get too cold at night before I read that it is unnecessary.
  • Temperature - I still need to get a new temperature gage as I am not sure the one I have is accurate but the middle of the enclosure reads 72. I worry that he is not able to regulate appropriately since he definitely cannot climb to warmer spots, much less ambulate around on the ground floor.
  • Humidity - Humidity seems more accurate as it changes appropriately when I mist. The lowest it gets before I need to mist is 40 while the highest I like to get to before I stop misting is 70 (within the 'Tropical zone' on my hygrometer). I recently purchased the Thrive Misting Machine to help with the humidity if I was not able to spray but it does less misting and more just a steady stream of water which is just pooling in my enclosure. Any tips on this specific machine is much appreciated, ie. a way to create more of a mister?
  • Plants - No current plants since he is unable to climb but I have put branches and random clippings from outside to make him feel more at home/in the wild...
  • Placement - Bedside right now so I can keep a better eye on him, if he continues to do well I plan to move him closer to a window but in the corner for indirect light.
  • Location - Texas
The first day I got had him he looked very poorly and dehydrated. After spraying him he perked right up and opened his eyes.

After misting he is a little more active and that's when I attempt to feed him. When feeding he is pretty responsive sometimes with eyes open and wriggles. When not feeding he is unresponsive with eyes closed and at times I have to check that he is breathing because he looks like he's passed.

I originally had him on the coconut fiber bedding with bark going by what I was told at PetSmart and thought this might be more natural for him but have since put him on a paper towel to prevent the bedding from going in his open mouth.

His left forearm is probably the most deformed and when he tries to crawl around it mostly just scratches his own face :( That side of his face looks more discolored and crusted-like than the other side. He still has some strength in his hands if I set small branches in them but definitely more so in his rear legs - still not anywhere close to be able to support himself on a branch however.

Today, Day 5, was the first day I was worried he was having a tongue issue. At times he will extend it farther than ever before and it will remain outside his mouth for a time but has always went back in. Is this him regaining his tongue strength?? It's still not strong enough to take in an insect but I put drops of ReptaBoost on the top of his tongue for him to lap back in his mouth.

Here are some pictures of the little guy!


View attachment 281114
Day 1

View attachment 281115
Day 1 - after first misting :)

View attachment 281116
Day 2

View attachment 281118
Day 5 - first poop!

View attachment 281117
Day 5

View attachment 281119
Day 5 - Tongue eventually retracted into mouth

Any and all advice is much appreciated! I'd really like to turn this little guy's life around. He's suffered enough ❤Thanks so much in advance!
Click to expand...
if u push through and get the husbandry perfect im sure u can help him and treat the mbd Just Believe and put in the work and um sure he will get better ur a good person fror helping him ??
 
SourGrape4u said:
I hate to say it but he might be to far gone, the best thing would be to end his suffering... I know that sounds bad but he looks to be past the point of return and is just hurting.
Click to expand...
I have thought about this as a possibility because the last thing I would want is to continue his suffering even more but he does seem to be improving so at this point I will try to aid him in recovering until I see him declining. Thank you for your input though :)
 
MissSkittles said:
Poor baby. ? Have you had one of the vets you work with check him/her out? That would be the first step to correcting needed supplementation and advising you on dosing.
Honestly, the majority of pet store employees (especially chain stores) really have limited knowledge about proper husbandry for chameleons. Most likely this poor baby ended up in such bad shape because the original keeper was poorly advised.
I understand the use of the aquarium tank as a temporary enclosure. It’s considered a ‘hospital’ enclosure. Keeping a dry towel (preferably one without little loops) on the floor would be better than paper towel as it will cushion any possible falls. If you could put a small plant like a pothos in there, that would be nice...leaves to drink from and hide/take shade in. While you’ll want to keep things relatively low, you should set up some little network of branches to climb on. The biggest improvement though is you’ll need a proper uvb light. Unfortunately the type you have isn’t able to provide adequate uvb levels past a few inches. You’ll need a T5 fixture with a 5.0 uvb bulb and ideally will be about 8-9” away from basking area. Usually it needs to be long enough to span the width of the enclosure. If your little one makes it, you’ll eventually be wanting to get a 2x2x4’ or equivalent enclosure, so may as well get a 24” T5.
With a glass tank, you are really going to have to watch temps and humidity very closely. Ideal humidity during the day is 30-50%. Ideal basking temp is no higher than 80 for such a little one.
Although the poor little one really doesn’t look good at all, I really wish the very best for you both.
Click to expand...


I don't work with any vets that feel comfortable seeing exotics... and for the first few days I honestly didn't want to put even more stress on him with the transportation. But if this is truly what is best I would of course be willing to find a veterinarian that feels confident in exotics to give treatment.

I figured the paper towel works for now because there is no possibility of him even moving from it right now much less climb and fall.
It seems that the general consensus is a better UVB so I will definitely look into purchasing a better and more appropriate UVB bulb. I feel pretty good about the temperature and humidity.\

Thank you so much for your input and hopefully I will be able to update you soon on his continued recovery!
 
Phoenix1991 said:
I don't work with any vets that feel comfortable seeing exotics... and for the first few days I honestly didn't want to put even more stress on him with the transportation. But if this is truly what is best I would of course be willing to find a veterinarian that feels confident in exotics to give treatment.

I figured the paper towel works for now because there is no possibility of him even moving from it right now much less climb and fall.
It seems that the general consensus is a better UVB so I will definitely look into purchasing a better and more appropriate UVB bulb. I feel pretty good about the temperature and humidity.\

Thank you so much for your input and hopefully I will be able to update you soon on his continued recovery!
Click to expand...
I don’t know if you’ll see this but can we get an update on the little guy :(
 
Phoenix1991 said:
I don't work with any vets that feel comfortable seeing exotics... and for the first few days I honestly didn't want to put even more stress on him with the transportation. But if this is truly what is best I would of course be willing to find a veterinarian that feels confident in exotics to give treatment.

I figured the paper towel works for now because there is no possibility of him even moving from it right now much less climb and fall.
It seems that the general consensus is a better UVB so I will definitely look into purchasing a better and more appropriate UVB bulb. I feel pretty good about the temperature and humidity.\

Thank you so much for your input and hopefully I will be able to update you soon on his continued recovery!
Click to expand...
Try to find a vet with lots of reputable and good chameleon experience, they will be a life-saver!
 
cruz.m said:
I don’t know if you’ll see this but can we get an update on the little guy :(
Click to expand...
Unfortunately I elected humane euthanasia after about a week or so. After transporting to a 'hospital bin' with appropriate UVB he continued to decline; he wasn't able to open his eyes any more and would no longer accept hand feeding.

Thank you all for the advice and hopefully soon in the future I will be able to raise a healthy chameleon.
 
Phoenix1991 said:
Unfortunately I elected humane euthanasia after about a week or so. After transporting to a 'hospital bin' with appropriate UVB he continued to decline; he wasn't able to open his eyes any more and would no longer accept hand feeding.

Thank you all for the advice and hopefully soon in the future I will be able to raise a healthy chameleon.
Click to expand...
Well you did a good thing trying to help. The pictures of him were awful. He looked so miserable. I'm sure he is in a better place now.
 
Phoenix1991 said:
Unfortunately I elected humane euthanasia after about a week or so. After transporting to a 'hospital bin' with appropriate UVB he continued to decline; he wasn't able to open his eyes any more and would no longer accept hand feeding.

Thank you all for the advice and hopefully soon in the future I will be able to raise a healthy chameleon.
Click to expand...
😢 Poor baby. You tried, but unfortunately he was too far gone. You did give him an end to his pain and suffering and sadly sometimes, that’s all we can do.
 
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