bad veiled situation

[LBonawitz]

she wants to stay right under the heat light, at all times. i had left her on the towel for a while to see if she could climb up. with no luck i knew she had to of been getting cold so i put her under the heat light, she climbed up a little bit further to be RIGHT under it and thats where she stayed. she doesn't like the ground, and the egg laying bin in her other cage (i'll get her another one for the weekend) she had no interest in.

how do i know if she wants to lay eggs?

she looks pretty small for any eggs to be in there.

if she didn't eat alot will she have fewer eggs?

also if she wasn't getting enough calcium would her body take the calcium from her bones to help make the eggs?

is it possible for her to have only 3 or 4 eggs? i couldn't imagine many more being in there. and i can't feel any.

i've never laid eggs, but i know that bloated feeling and i'll do anything to help her in this situation. (Although, this is why i stick to my SON chameleon )

 

[dondeb562]

Yah she does not appear as big in these pix, but if she is not gravid she looks to have a good body weight. If she is not eating though it kind of still leads me to think that she is early term... She also may have a weak grip due to lack of calcium. Were you able to find any liquid calcium? Do you have any reptile specialty stores near you? They may carry it if you do.
I really believe this "breeder" who gave "joe" this cham knew it was not well and pawned it off on the first unsuspecting person instead of dealing with it himself which is pretty sad.
She does not look as sunken in the eyes in the new pix either. So that is a good thing.

 

[MEPOKEU]

You mentioned something about him not liking your old cage.
If you need to borrow cage for a few months.

I have a few extra Reptarium laying around the house.

 

[LittleLionLover]

Just a thought. But I've heard phoenix worms were quite high in calcium, I haven't used them personally but have heard good results from some friends of mine. I was thinking they might possibly help boost her calcium levels. Though regardless i'd still trying getting your hands on some liquid calcium, but the worms might do for a short term place holder and perhaps even help her a bit. But strictly speaking this is only a hopeful guess but it might be worth a try.
Hope this helps,
Jazmin

 

[PardalisGirl]

Great Pictures....

Hi again...those are great pictures....I really don't think she is gravid at all. Those colors just do not say gravid to me at all. They say neutral or receptive. She looks less "bloated" in these pictures too. These things plus not feeling eggs would cause me to just forget the egg laying business if she were in my care.

Did you find the calcium syrup stuff? I think she is mainly suffering from the effects of moderately severe MBD. The inability to climb well and the tongue situation strongly point to this. People on this forum have nursed chams back to health with conditions like this. It requires consistent patience and work. I wish you could tell the guy how much she loved the real sun and try to convince him to let him vacation at your spa for a month.

Keeping her warm is a good idea. She knows she needs it. A bit more warmth (not overheating) during any illness helps to boost the immune system. Kudos to your boyfriend for helping you out too. He looks so serious about getting her to drink

 

[LBonawitz]

thank you all so much for your replys. i have found A liquid calcium. its for humans though its calcium and vitamin d (http://www.bizrate.com/vitamins_nutrition/oid440123742.html) would that work? i got her some meal worms today from the pet store and more crix. i had put 4 in a cup today while i was at work so she could eat if she wanted. and when i came home i opened her cage to see if she ate any (she didn't) but she actually flared up at me and thats HUGE she has never gotten upset before. well i'm off to put her in the remaining sun of the day

 

[LBonawitz]

Yah she does not appear as big in these pix, but if she is not gravid she looks to have a good body weight. If she is not eating though it kind of still leads me to think that she is early term... She also may have a weak grip due to lack of calcium. .

she has not pooped in almost a week, i've been putting her in warm water "baths" if you will, to get her hydration up MORE, she didn't eat at all today but i put her in another "bath" i only leave her in for about 20 minutes? is that too long, or not long enough. i really want to get her "regular" again

 

[ChrisnLisa]

A few things to think about. I have a female veiled that NEVER shows gravid colors. She will continue to look receptive all the way until laying eggs. Thia may be the case for this girl. By looking at her casque, that belly may have eggs in it. Her casque is not "meaty" looking like a chubby girls would be. As far as liquid calcium, it is 0.01 per 10 grams of weight, not 0.1 per 10 grams....i think someone misspoke about that earlier. I really wish i had extra to send to you. Perhaps you could post something under "wanted", I'm sure someone has some lying around they could give you. I would continue to shower her everyday, as well as soaking, if she is tolerable. Since she hasn't pooped ( I believe you said that?), that belly may be from impaction, which would also explain weak grip and overall poor health. Soakings and showering would help loosen her up a bit if that was the case. I have been following this thread, and I am so happy you are friends with "Joe", so this poor cham has a fighting chance.

Lisa

 

[LBonawitz]

she likes the soaking a whole lot more than the showers. my boyfriends 4 year old daughter wanted to know why i'm treated her like a fish and "fish don't have legs"

the girl loves her

 

[Miss Lily]

A few things to think about. I have a female veiled that NEVER shows gravid colors. She will continue to look receptive all the way until laying eggs. Thia may be the case for this girl. By looking at her casque, that belly may have eggs in it. Her casque is not "meaty" looking like a chubby girls would be. As far as liquid calcium, it is 0.01 per 10 grams of weight, not 0.1 per 10 grams....i think someone misspoke about that earlier. I really wish i had extra to send to you. Perhaps you could post something under "wanted", I'm sure someone has some lying around they could give you. I would continue to shower her everyday, as well as soaking, if she is tolerable. Since she hasn't pooped ( I believe you said that?), that belly may be from impaction, which would also explain weak grip and overall poor health. Soakings and showering would help loosen her up a bit if that was the case. I have been following this thread, and I am so happy you are friends with "Joe", so this poor cham has a fighting chance.

Lisa

Lily never showed gravid coloration either, just receptive colours that were brighter at times than others. I understand that some females don't show gravid colouring unless they see a male.

 

[dondeb562]

Lily never showed gravid coloration either, just receptive colours that were brighter at times than others. I understand that some females don't show gravid colouring unless they see a male.

I would agree with this. I got 2 veiled females and had them in there quarantine room. One dropped 27 eggs 3 weeks after I got her. NEVER showed receptive colors or gravid colors. Shen never even got big. All the eggs were infertile, tiny and deflated looking which would lead me to think that would have been why I missed her being gravid. Normally you can tell and with this one I did not even know till I found her digging in her ficus.

 

[LBonawitz]

but she won't come down from under the heat light. should i just put a laying bin with a heat light right above it? and force her to stay on the dirt?

that seems kinda mean

(and she ate 3 more crix thismorning )

 

[dondeb562]

you can leave a laying box in there. You do not need to put her in it. I am not sure she is gravid, like I said she does have pretty good body weight for a neglected cham and a cham that is not eating which made me think she could be.

 

[LBonawitz]

Lily never showed gravid coloration either, just receptive colours that were brighter at times than others. I understand that some females don't show gravid colouring unless they see a male.

in seeing a male, would it have to be a veiled male... i could take her to the pet store with me and show her the ones there..?

i'm sure she wounldn't be attracted to my little boy with big horns

 

[Miss Lily]

in seeing a male, would it have to be a veiled male... i could take her to the pet store with me and show her the ones there..?

i'm sure she wounldn't be attracted to my little boy with big horns

I don't know, presumably seeing any chameleon would get a reaction. It might be worth a try showing her to your male. I've only ever had one cham at a time, and Lily was my first so I can't help with that.

Hopefully someone who has bred chams will know the answer to this!

 

[LBonawitz]

okay, i just tried having her meet my male, he got all flared up and was bobbing back and forth showing his manly colors and she turned kinda dark like she was cold (she was away from her heat light) and tried climbing away, got a couple steps away from him and closed her eyes and laid down... like she always does. she doesn't feel good

and that was it. she laid there and he was pissed

 

[Miss Lily]

Aww, poor girl. She sounds really poorly. When Lily was ill she would just lay in my hand and close her eyes. She even laid on top of my head with her eyes closed too - I guess it was warm up there!

 

[LBonawitz]

did you ever find out what happened to lilly?

i always put her on a lilly plant outside i was thinking about naming her lilly number 2, since she doesn't have a name

 

[Miss Lily]

did you ever find out what happened to lilly?

i always put her on a lilly plant outside i was thinking about naming her lilly number 2, since she doesn't have a name

I suspect that she reacted to the worming treatment, although the post mortem didn't show this as the single cause of death. There were several things going on with her. Here's an extract from her post mortem thread:

The vet found that her liver was pale and enlarged and also her left ovary was very large and abnormal looking. He also drained approx 30ml fluid from her abdomen. Although there were some worms present in the intestines he was able to look at, they were not in such huge numbers to have caused her death. Although the exact cause of death wasn't found, there were several things going on that contributed it. On the plus side her kidneys appeared to be normal. I was worried about them as she was never a big drinker.

That's a lovely idea to name her Lily.

 

[LBonawitz]

She pooped!!!!!!

she pooped!!! sorry but i had to take a picture of it!

the picture doesn't do the urate justice. part of it was hard like the white caulking so you would find in your shower, but ORANGE. i soaked her 3 times today and had her in natural sun for 5 hours. she ate a 4th cricket and i sprayed water in her mouth while she ate it. now i have her back in her cage since its cooling down outside its been 73 degrees (F) today. i'm just so glad she pooped! the first end of it was dry like a piece of bark, i felt so bad for her. now i can get a new start on her and know whats inside i know that sounds weird but it will make me feel better knowing whats going on...or in should i say