Broken Ribs??

[ciafardo 4]

i really dont think its mbd either some people on this forum cant wait to throw the letters mbd around iguess they like the sound of it u post a pic ur reply will be oh thats mbd mbd everthing is mbd lay off the stinkin mbd she uses calcium with d3 and probly doesnt know any better and uses it everyday so i highly doubt its mbd if anything the are absorbing to much cal please lets go one day on this forum without sayin mbd mbd

 

[kinyonga]

"The pseudo-gout (calcium hydroxyapatite) deposits usually appear as irregular firm swellings over joints in the limbs and on ribs."
http://www.seavs.com/case_studies/lizards/

Does she have a place in the cage to dig to lay eggs?

I think you need to review your husbandry regarding supplements and possibly UVB.

 

[ciafardo 4]

im going to social security today im goin to legally change my name to mbd ! yo mbd whatcha doin hey mbd wanna grab a beer yes i like it mr. mbd

 

[rebeccaford]

this is a photo i have just this min taken to me she dont look all that bad and well looked after and she doesnt have any swelling anywhere..........oh and btw her tail is behind my arm, just incase sum of u ppl think iv cut it off!

 

[mazurowsk1]

I have been reading this thread and have also noticed that my female has the samething. She has never fell while we have had heard mine has two rows of these bumps. I don't k ow the skeletal structure of Chams but could their rib cage be hinged? Just a thought.

 

[rebeccaford]

hey mr MBD what are your thoughts on my photo of my cham? doesnt even slightly look like mbd looks more pissed off than anything

 

[Sepioteuthis]

"The pseudo-gout (calcium hydroxyapatite) deposits usually appear as irregular firm swellings over joints in the limbs and on ribs."
http://www.seavs.com/case_studies/lizards/

Does she have a place in the cage to dig to lay eggs?

I think you need to review your husbandry regarding supplements and possibly UVB.

I agree with Kinyonga that this could be a sign that your husbandry needs adjusting. Those bumps aren't normal, something caused them and as responsible keepers we should always look at ourselves and our husbandry first.

And BTW I don't think anyone on this forum is trying to insinuate that you don't love your chameleons or that you're purposefully neglecting them. We all love our chameleons and we've all made mistakes and / or been misinformed about something. Chameleons are not easy to keep and there is a lot of bad information about them out there.
So don't think we're trying to be mean, it just happens all too often that a caring and responsible person is given some really bad information.

We're just trying to help.

 

[ciafardo 4]

yes you are right there is no bowing of the leggs elbows are sharp noy u shaped its not mbd

 

[rebeccaford]

Im going to take her to the vets still just to giver her a check over but i guess theres nothing they can to for poorly ribs......i mean what do chams do in the wild when they have fallen off a branch and broke thier ribs...they cant really go walk to the vets, they have to repair by them selfs.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

I have seen nobs on the sides of a baby veiled at a pet store, and also 2 of our rescue chams have nobs on their rib cage, visible only occasionally. I, too, wondered what they were caused by. I don't know, except for what I've read on this thread. But I did find a few interesting photos by googling "chameleon skeleton". The Pseudo Gout that Kinyonga mentioned looks like a very likely explanation.

I guess the ribs heal and the cham goes on with its life, so long as everything else is OK. And I guess that's the question. One of the big concerns with nutritional deficiencies causing fragile ribs is that a broken rib can easily pierce a vital organ. I have read on this forum of that happening. A cham is suddenly found dead and a necropsy reveals that it must have taken a fall, as a broken rib has pierced an internal organ. But, for all I know, this can happen with perfectly healthy ribs. The danger with fragile ribs is that a break can happen without the cham even taking a fall.

This first skeleton shows some 2 nodules on ribs. Perhaps remnants of Pseudo gout?

This second skeleton (linked here) shows what appears to be normal "pegged" rib joints.

http://www.digimorph.org/library/pop.htm?/specimens/Chamaeleo_calyptratus/whole//specimenlarge.jpg

And, while we're at it, a cool page with an illustration of skeleton and also of internal organs:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bp1.blogger.com/_1WmXfTC8ucw/R9cDJYt3fzI/AAAAAAAAAIw/UFR3tx4W3-U/s400/corgans_calyptratus_female.jpg&imgrefurl=http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/02/veiled-chameleons-anatomy.html&h=310&w=400&sz=26&hl=en&start=62&sig2=eJ73zQ4Feb-0ZAqRYWliwA&um=1&tbnid=IM6WVnx_a6igTM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=124&ei=POWtSLiVG5e8iAGqibnjCg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dchameleon%2Bskeleton%26start%3D54%26ndsp%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us%26sa%3DN

On another note: Our vet has told us that raising chams is an art, not a science. Hence, each individual breeder's techiniques more or less evolve over time. We learn constantly, and frequently borrow from each other's knowledge, skill and experience. I would guess many of us continue to tweak our husbandry in order to improve it when we gain better or newer knowledge. I recently saw a very senior member of this forum ask for help with a cham. Another, more junior, member asked her to provide her husbandry details (such as Ryan did on this thread). That senior member, even with all her experience, was willing to present her husbandry data. That really spoke to me. Just food for thought.

 

[BocaJan]

Thanks for posting that skeleton pic. The rib joints are lower (which is what I thought) so the bumps wouldn't be the rib joints.

I hope there can be some resolution. Please consider taking her to a vet.

 

[Jeweledchameleons]

They are broken ribs.
It's very clear... the animal fell and broke them.

The "nodes" are the result of the animals attempt to heal itself.
this isn't because I'm suggesting that the owner has been throwing
it across the room or playing "frog baseball" with it
it's because these animals climb and fall in their cages.

I've said this before in other threads
There's often a kneejerking reaction post that usually appears
often in several forms around here... they include:
MBD
VET ASAP!!!
EGGS!~!!!!!
WORMS!
and MBD with EGGS and need to get to the VET combos
with NUTRITION thrown in to round things out.

All can be usually discounted if the poster can spend some time
and think things through to find logical reasons for their statements
BEFORE posting one of the above "catch all - non answers"
that way the person asking for help will get a good signal to noise ratio here.
We're all trying to help here.. I know that...

It's just if you're really trying to help then please include the reasons why
you believe your statements are true.

I happen to know what broken ribs look like
when I examined one of my sub adults that had a nasty fall
these are broken ribs no doubt
there isn't any sign of MBD nor is it gravid.
we're dealing with the aftermath of a impact injury.
sorry if I sound short but I'm trying to get out of the office asap
so I can feed my kids a bowl full of flies. ;D

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."little bumps on both sides of her ribs"....
You said..."she has only just started digging around the viv for the past week"...was she mated? Does she have a suitable place to dig to lay eggs? Has she laid eggs before? Is your other chameleon the same species?

 

[rebeccaford]

nah she hasnt been mated, and has a deep pit to dig around in, she's never layed any eggs yet and neither has the other one, she is the same species aswell.

 

[kinyonga]

How often do you dust with the nutrobal? You said it contains D3 and vitamin A...both of which are fat soluble and can build up in the system. I dust most of the time with a phos.-free calcium powder (without D3 or A).
What do you gutload/feed the insects with?

Even if the bumps on the ribs were caused by a fall and broken ribs, IMHO its worth going over the husbandry to make sure that the ribs didn't break partly from weak and not just the trauma of the fall. Its also worth taking the chameleon to the vets IMHO. The vet could run tests to see if nutrient levels played a part or if it could be gout.

 

[spencer k]

so does anyone know of a corfirmed cause of these bumps yet? i have read they are parasites, yeast desosites, broken ribs ect?!?

 

[greenmenace]

Possible broken ribs

My veiled chameleon broke her leg last week. It got stuck in the top of the cage. I'm handling her leg issue, but I can't tell if her ribs are broken or not. She's the only chameleon( or anything else) in her cage.

 

[browncofan]

Greenmenace,

Welcome to the Forums. To get the help you need please go to the Health Clinic and fill out the Help Needed Form on the sticky. You can paste this on a new thread and fill it out. If you use a different color for your answers or a different font it will be easier for people to read your answers, Also more information is better no such thing as too much info be as detailed as possible.

Thanks

 

[fluxlizard]

I just skimmed this thread and am not sure if you ever got an answer. Those bumps are from weak bones breaking from MBD. It used to be very common back in the early 90s with young still rapidly growing veileds that were not supplemented properly. Their rapid growth rate requires a high amount of calcium and d3 (either from diet or good lighting or sunlight).

 

[Aurora 777]

Your chameleon is prego. I had the same thing happen with my cham. The eggs are pushing on her rib cage. It will in some cases makes the rib cage look deformed. You are doing a great job raising your cham. Keep up the good work