can anyone help me understand

[mealie]

I lost my 6/7 month old veiled this evening.

She had been back to her usual self over the last 5 days or so after shedding, losing her appetite and having her eye closed for a day or so. The eye resolved itself with showers as advised and she had not shown any more problems with it. It had been open, clear, no discharge etc.

She had been active, started to enjoy coming out for free range time and daily showers with tepid/warm water. She had also taken to drinking from the spray bottle used to mist her viv. This morning she had eaten, drunk and been active and alert.

She was eating locust again after shedding with the occasional wax worm treat.

This afternoon, while i was at work, my daughter came home to find her near the bottom of the viv, hanging over a branch. She misted as usual, but says that cham seemed not to be gripping with her hind legs. Shortly after she feel a small distance ( 3/4) inches to the bottom but was crumpled and did not self right.She had a dark patch appear on her stomach. My daughter, bless her didnt panic but got the reptile friendly neighbour to come check her over. By this time she was cold and could not mover her back legs. She barely moved for the rest of her time apart from a hiss and a slight front leg movement.

I am struggling here, as is my son, to understand what we did or didnt do for her and what took her so quickly?! Was she ill and we didnt notice? Did she do serious damage when she fell?? I dont know, but we are all devastated. She hadnt been with us long, but she has left a huge hole.

 

[zsazsa85]

Oh gosh, I'm so sorry! It's terrible...
Chameleons are good with falling off branches, mostly nothing happens. I'm assuming there was something already. I can't help, I don't know what caused it, perhaps someone more experienced knows better. MBD may be?!
Take my condolences! I can imagine how you feel,they are in a very short time the little sweetest part of our heart!

 

[carol5208]

So sorry you lost your chameleon. It doesn't take long for them to grow on us, so I understand how you feel. A lot of times chameleons will seem fine and then just die. I have seen this on here many times where they eat, drink, the owner goes to work and comes home to find their chameleon passed away. But they actually die for a reason, unfortunately one that might not have manifested any symptoms yet . We had one member who had a similar situation and after he had a necropsy performed, he found out his chameleon had injested a piece of twist tie used to hold branches together. It might help if you go the health clinic and fill out the ask for help form so we can see if anything in your set up might have led to her demise. It is possible she could have had eggs and was eggbound. Were you aware they can lay infertile eggs and that you need a laying bin at about 6 months of age? It is just a possibility and not saying this was the case. Do you have any pics of her right before she passed. It could maybe help us see if there was something you might not have known to look for. As far as falling, they really can take some falls from pretty high up, so I doubt it was the fall that killed her. Again, I am very sorry for your loss.

 

[mealie]

your chameleon- female veiled, 6/7 months, owned for 5/6 weeks
handling- daily, she liked to come out and either sit on our heads or on her fake plants,had started coming to the door to be got out.
Feeding- locust, 4/6 daily, gut loaded with veg and peelings and dusted daily (lightly) with nutrobal
Watering- misted 3 or 4 times daily for 2/3 mins and she would drink from the leaves and sides. also drank from the spray bottle when the drips formed at the end never sprayed into her mouth.
fecal description- brown, longish and haing already compared to poop 101, normal with white urates. never been parasite tested.
History- came from a group of 3 females at a well known (locally) pet, aquatics and exotic centre.
Cage type- combo glass and mesh. 36x18x24 inches
Lighting- uva/b 150w x2 coil and 150w basking bulb
Temperature- 82-85 in basking spot. Mid to high 70s lower to mid height, high 70s low 80s higher up. thermostat and needle thermometer to read temps
Humidity- 50/60% measured by hygrometer
Plants- all fake
Placement- no fans or aircon. Some traffic but generally quiet. Top of viv almost 6 feet off the ground.
Location- Dorset, southwest england

 

[mealie]

We had considered the egg situation and were indeed making a trip this evening to get her lay box finished and installed just incase having read that it was a wise idea to install it in plenty of time. She did not appear to have changed shape in anyway to indicate that she was carrying eggs.

I will have to post recent pics when my phone is charged, stress seems to have killed it this evening.

 

[carol5208]

The only thing I question is the uvb bulbs you were using (X2). 150 Watt? Not saying this contributed to her death in any way but just curious what exactly you were using. What brand and what was the uvb output, for example 2.0, 5.0, 10.0 etc. There was a member just the other day whose female died unexpectantly. He cut her open(which I could not do personally) and found she had 20 eggs. I don't know if she had anywhere to lay or not, but I don't think she looked as if she was carrying.

 

[mealie]

We had 2 bulbs there as that what we had been told we would need but after looking itno it and the eye thing, we had only had 1 turned on.

I was up until the early hours trawling to see if i could figure anything out. I suspect she may have had a URI (possibly) as the eye could have been related to that.Altough there were no other apparent symptoms showing.


I feel like i have let her down by not picking something up and helping her. My other half says we will get another but im not sure i can.

 

[zsazsa85]

If there weren't other RI symptoms, then I don't think she had it...They close their eyes or one eye during the day if there is something else, not just because of RI.
Autopsy could help figure it out. But I don't know how much does it cost....
I know how hard it can be, who else could you be angry at if not at yourself?! I would be the same. But in this case too, time is really your friend.
Chameleons make you addicted, I don't think you can live without one... Just give some time for yourself!

 

[symphonica]

In terms of UVB, wattage doesn't tell you the UVB output. It should say 2.0, 5.0, 10.0, or be a percentage. Also, tubes are better than coiled bulbs.

What is your humidity percentage?

I'm not familiar with Nutrobal. Does it have any D3 or vitamins in it? Plain calcium can be given every day, but D3 and vitamins every day can cause more harm than good.

Had he ever been to the vet's and had a fecal exam done to test for parasites, blood work for organ function, or X-ray to detect MBD?

Sometimes, by the time a cham is showing symptoms, it's often too late. Chams tend to succumb to "silent killers" that show very little symptoms, or they're very subtle. Also, they can seemingly get better and have lots of energy right before they're about to die. It's like a last boost of energy before they go.

 

[ir0k]

I cant offer anything other than my condolances for your loss :-(

 

[mealie]

Sorry, i thought i had added that the bulb was 10%, we only had coils until the tubes needed arrived :O(

The humidity was 50/60%.

The nutrobal is an everyday calcium and multi vit supplement, also containing d3. After reading the product review from the person who designed/created it, it is safe for everyday use as an all in 1 but now im not so sure. The center we got her from also recommended we use it.

We hadnt had fecal exam, blood work or x rays done as she hadnt been with us long at all. These were things we planned to have done in the near future to help us provide the best care for her.

I will at some point get another, as Zsazsa85 says, chameleons are addictive,and i dont mind being an addict to something so fascinating!! and i do not want to make any mistakes again if i can learn from what i did or didnt do for her.

We didnt and wont be getting an autopsy done. Although i could possibly have learned from it, my son needed to see that she was safely buried in the garden.

 

[symphonica]

Unfortunately, some chameleons are already sick when you buy them, especially if they aren't cared for properly by ignorant pet stores. It's always recommended that you purchase from a reputable breeder.

I would stay away from giving anything with D3 more than twice a month, no matter how safe they tell you it is. Too much D3 accumulating in their bodies will cause symptoms similar to MBD.

 

[mealie]

It is a possibility that she was not well when we got her, she was housed with others but who knows.

The nutrobal will be a no no with the next 1 and i will do everything i can to prevent this from happening again.

I have my heart set on another, even after this short time of having her, she has made a huge impression on us. The next 1 will be a male but i dont know of any breeders in my area.

 

[symphonica]

Are you thinking of going with a veiled again?

 

[mealie]

Yes, i think so. Much as i love the more varied colours of other breeds, the veiled is lovely too