Canadian Economy Pricing

[Chamero]

Just to jump on the oil thing real quick. The reason why oil is down so much is because it was driven up artificially high a few months back. Then, the over invested oil bubble burst and people bailed out. Many people lost money on its way down, i.e. hedge funds, which were forced to sell there hedged commodity investments to cover their losses. Which is why commodities are now highly sold off. With everyone bailing from the market, and all going down including oil, everyone turned to treasury bills, i.e. currencies, like the dollar. When the dollar increases, as it is now, oil decreases further because we can buy more oil with our one dollar. When the dollar breaks, oil will rise again. Also, if i remember correctly, America makes its oil contracts annually, meaning that since its the end of the year, new consumption estimates for 09 aren't out, and goes the same with production levels.

 

[ciafardo 4]

agreed, but in today's market the going rate for a Yemen is 30-100... that's why they are sold at that price,.. panthers go for 250+ that's why they are sold at that price.. i love both species but if i had to choose one i would go with my panthers(i think 9 out of 10 average people would agree)..i think simply for that reason alone, they are more valuable its just the way it is..until the "standard" is changed it will stay this way.. as stated fluctuations will happen along side the economy's ups and downs..

sorry, I hope you have a sense of humor


http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155202

fart sniffin to save the enviorment nice

 

[FOREVER ENDEAVOR]

sniff snifff , aahhhhh sniffsniff, aaaahhhhhhh...........

 

[ciafardo 4]

sniff snifff , aahhhhh sniffsniff, aaaahhhhhhh...........

only in san fran my man

 

[Dsignrguy]

Why wouldn't anybody answer to my questions ? I couldn't understand it why a species like pardalis cost more than all trioceros species ? They are harder to breed and harder to keep.

color, "wow factor", perception, & marketability.

 

[chequepoint]

I think thats great that the Panthers are selling for a much cheaper price. That is a great marketing strategy. It's business to a lot of you breeders here on the forum ,in my opinion, so I can see why some of you are getting defensive and not agreeing. Not saying its just breeders getting upset, but the big picture is many of you breeders raise quality chams and put forth energy (understood), while sitting on your arses playing video games thinking $$$$ Then you sale your clutches for a very high price. (DONT MEAN THAT LITERALLY) Truth is, its all about supply and demand with chams. Their is a demand of course, and the supply is huge compared to years ago. Trust does come into play, as with anything. Value of course and location (INTERNET). The person who started this thread is very correct, IMO, with regards to the economy. Its an economic fact actually. I'm in the business world and feel the sameway. The chams will be around $100 at some point and maybe $175 for the bizarre colored and awesome bloodline. Its the same with everything. Its all about supply and demand. WH or CH, they still came from the same original place. It matters with many supply chains are available. The Parsons for example: Many of you are breeding selling, breeding, selling, breeding, selling, and so on. I'm sure you get the picture. They will be easily available. Same with illegal drugs.
I was listening to Suzie Orman last night mentioning to someone to sell their house for $200 less if you just want to get rid of it. She added, of course the neighbors would get mad, because it would lower their house value.

(This is just my thoughts, I am sure many of you may disagree, which is fine. I respect everyone opinions, and I meant nothing literally about the stereotypes exampled above)

Thats fine, as long as you care about yourself more than the animals. The cheaper they become, the more will die, and the less effort people will put into diversifying the bloodlines to maintain quality animals. Simple fact. I don't breed them, I make no money from chameleons. I just see the big picture. I've seen it over my lifetime, when I was little and would buy a simple golden hamster it would live for 6 years. Now the average lifespan is under 3 years.

I've kept Degu's in the past, fascinating animals. Probably my favorite rodent pet, but as they became popular, breeding got out of control, drove the prices into the toilet, breeding them commercially became no longer viable, everybody got out of it.. and now we're left with hobbyists just inbreeding what they have as the only source.

So in exchange for your $100 panther, the focus of the hobby will go from the research and preservation efforts currently happening, to the same vile redneck genetic engineering that plagues the rest of the reptile industry.

 

[Trace]

So we should just keep raping the wild for animals because it's cheaper than to try and breed those species? So again, it's all about price when it comes to chameleons, not about the passion and love for the specimens themselves. I guess I value the people who put in the effort to try and figure out how to keep those "rare" species in captivity. That, to me, is worth something. In the grand scheme of things, I'd be the happiest person if ALL exports of wild chameleons stopped tomorrow; but that another story for another time.

The "wow factor", "perceived value", "fancy colours" are not valid reasons to justify the high price on pardalis for me. I'm still waiting for my questions to be answered.

Trace

 

[ChromaChameleons]

So, I assume that breeders that charge $125 for a panther , have a greater passion for the hobby than those investing in numerous CB bloodlines and charging $200 or $300?????????????????????

 

[Sang]

The Parsons for example: Many of you are breeding selling, breeding, selling, breeding, selling, and so on. I'm sure you get the picture. They will be easily available. Same with illegal drugs.
I was listening to Suzie Orman last night mentioning to someone to sell their house for $200 less if you just want to get rid of it. She added, of course the neighbors would get mad, because it would lower their house value.

Parsons are priced as such for a reason, the fact is a 2 year incubation, + the difficultly in raising/breeding the species if you ask me justifies the price, since i don't imagine there is more then 2k US wide.

Sure prices will go down, and with cheaper prices you have risky investments. Economy will not affect how people purchase things, whne someone wants something bad enough they will buy it, the "better deal" is not always the better deal.


man members argue that a 100 dollar panther is a fair price. but honestly thing, from the point they are bred, *the risk taken onto the female* hatching to sell date. thats 3 months if its a smart breeder...3 months of food for what ever size of clutch. if i recall flys and such are expensive, breeders are simply not just sitting on there asses as you so elegantly put.


i agree with trace, when they say all paradalis should be equally priced, but not everyone is keeping the same locale as others, some locales will be readly available while others such as tamatave and nosy mitiso don't have nearly as large of a population as other species.

 

[jernlee]

Hats off to all that has spent all the time and effort. So we can get on the forum and pick their brains. And thats why they will always have a following of clients. Because of the hard work. The cream ususlly comes to the top.
thanks again jerry

 

[chequepoint]

So we should just keep raping the wild for animals because it's cheaper than to try and breed those species? So again, it's all about price when it comes to chameleons, not about the passion and love for the specimens themselves. I guess I value the people who put in the effort to try and figure out how to keep those "rare" species in captivity. That, to me, is worth something. In the grand scheme of things, I'd be the happiest person if ALL exports of wild chameleons stopped tomorrow; but that another story for another time.

The "wow factor", "perceived value", "fancy colours" are not valid reasons to justify the high price on pardalis for me. I'm still waiting for my questions to be answered.

Trace

As happy of a thought as it is to have people sitting around all day doing what they wanted for the betterment of the world, it isn't going to happen. Science, like art, can only exist when funded properly. People have to eat. You complain about the price of the panthers, but want people to stop collecting WC specimens of other species?? If heavier regulations are put on the collection of the animals from the wild, and people devote time and money to captive breeding programs, the cost is going to have to go up. You can't have it both ways. Nobody is going to sit around losing money and living in a shack so that you can have an affordable captive bred pet.

Panthers cost what they do because right now people put the amount of work and money into them to produce a beautiful, healthy animal. People are willing to pay for it, partially because they are beautiful and fascinating creatures, and partly because WC's aren't readily available to the consumer anymore. As long as a high level of profitability is maintained, the quality of the animals will stay high in those produced by ethical people. These people are not greedy, they are looking to get paid for what they do well.

The greed comes from the people looking to maximize profits by raising the animals at the lowest quality with the highest profit margin that the market will bear. It is their efforts and greed that is causing this discussion.

The bottom falling out of the panther market will not help your cause of for the captive propagation of other species.

 

[Sang]

i believe trace knows she can't have both, and from talking to her, she would like to see the overall exportation of chameleon species stopped all together.

i don't think she keeps panthers anymore.

fact of the matter is i think she understandsthat as well, along with many of the other forum members.

 

[ocdirtyjerz]

As happy of a thought as it is to have people sitting around all day doing what they wanted for the betterment of the world, it isn't going to happen. Science, like art, can only exist when funded properly. People have to eat. You complain about the price of the panthers, but want people to stop collecting WC specimens of other species?? If heavier regulations are put on the collection of the animals from the wild, and people devote time and money to captive breeding programs, the cost is going to have to go up. You can't have it both ways. Nobody is going to sit around losing money and living in a shack so that you can have an affordable captive bred pet.

Panthers cost what they do because right now people put the amount of work and money into them to produce a beautiful, healthy animal. People are willing to pay for it, partially because they are beautiful and fascinating creatures, and partly because WC's aren't readily available to the consumer anymore. As long as a high level of profitability is maintained, the quality of the animals will stay high in those produced by ethical people. These people are not greedy, they are looking to get paid for what they do well.

The greed comes from the people looking to maximize profits by raising the animals at the lowest quality with the highest profit margin that the market will bear. It is their efforts and greed that is causing this discussion.

The bottom falling out of the panther market will not help your cause of for the captive propagation of other species.

LOL! Not to start another debate, but what do yu say for all the beaners building the million dollar homes for 8 bucks an hour. Yes I worked right next them. Hard work it was for us. The product was worth millions. My boss was a cocaine cowboy.
What I'm saying is that not all prices are effected by the work involved. I'm not serious, just humorously mocking you. When I see your user name, I think of the border line check point. Holmes

 

[chequepoint]

Thats all fine. I'm not arguing WITH anyone in particular on the forums. The fact is that this is a living, evolving research document, and its more important to me that some things get said for the sake of the person who is going to read this thread next year, than for anyone in particular here right now. I'm sure you're all decent, educated people. This is the internet, its all imaginary, and nothing is personal.

That said, to continue a pet trade and a healthy captive population, the wild capture of these animals is essential to diversify bloodlines. However those animals should be regulated and priced accordingly to keep them in the hands of legitimate breeders and research facilities, and out of petco and lllreptile.

 

[chequepoint]

LOL! Not to start another debate, but what do yu say for all the beaners building the million dollar homes for 8 bucks an hour. Yes I worked right next them. Hard work it was for us. The product was worth millions. My boss was a cocaine cowboy.
What I'm saying is that not all prices are effected by the work involved. I'm not serious, just humorously mocking you. When I see your user name, I think of the border line check point. Holmes

I think using a racial slur in your post makes you look uneducated, and invalidates whatever legitimate points you may have.

 

[Kentonk]

Many people, maybe not enough, actually worry about whether the seller has a good reputation, is good to deal with, sells a good product, and are just nice people who deserve our money.
My girlfriend and I just got into the whole reptile thing not that long ago, so for my chameleon and her first snake, we were flying blind. Now that we have been around a bit, talked to several people and seen for ourselves what is going on, we choose our purchases based on many factors, price being near the bottom of the list. For example, we drive an extra 40 minutes each way to buy feeders for her snakes rather than go to the store down the road because we don't like the attitude of the owner of the local store.
We were lucky with my cham that we bought from Harry at an expo. Since then we have chatted with him at another expo, he was more than willing to take the time to answer emails and phone us with advice, and overall made himself available for all the followup help we asked. He obviously LOVES these animals and cares what happens to them. For that, I am more than willing to pay more to support him and his business. If the time comes for us to get another cham, Harry would be the first person I would call.
Remember folks, quality product and service are important to many people, not just saving a few bucks.

 

[FOREVER ENDEAVOR]

I think using a racial slur in your post makes you look uneducated, and invalidates whatever legitimate points you may have.

although i don't particularly appreciate the slur, that's not true at all.....

c'mon guys,.. i think we can all see where this is going.. one off topic argument after another until a member or one of the moderators gets offended and the the thread gets locked/deleted....

 

[ocdirtyjerz]

I think using a racial slur in your post makes you look uneducated, and invalidates whatever legitimate points you may have.

Your right checkpoint, I'm sorry if you took it racial. I just heard Mind of Mencia calling Mexican immigrants "beaners". I like the name, its cute. Me gustó bastante el pollo y el arroz con frijol negro cuando fui en el puesto de control.. I'm sorry Pablo. I will watch my ebachucated responses for now. I'll follow your ethics personally for now on. bueno

 

[Nicodemayo]

If anyone honestly feels cbb parsonii will be commonly avaliable anytime in the near future i have crowned them as an idiot

 

[Sang]

Going to have to agree with nico.

when the time comes to buy one *which i plan on it...5 years down the road* i will be lucky to find one. and also i will probably max out a credit card in the proccess.