Canadian Economy Pricing

[Chameleon Company]

I've sold a couple in my day ...

I was pleasantly surprised at the volume of posts here ! And I confess that I read about 30%, and skimmed the rest. I took economics in college too So, IMMHO.

1) Supply and Demand has always been the primary factor, and will continue to be.

2) Folks will pay more for perceived quality, service, and peace-of-mind when choosing between breeders/suppliers, but it is secondary to #1.

3) Bragging rights apply. Chameleons are more as a collectable, IMO, than a commodity, etc. A "pretty" $400 chameleon is more valuable, and more easily boasted about, than an equally "pretty" $200 chameleon, unless the buyer of the second takes enormous pleasure in calling the buyer of the first a "dumbass". Both have helped to pay my bills.

I thank all for their patronage.

 

[casidonacid]

haha I like how you put it jim

I was pleasantly surprised at the volume of posts here ! And I confess that I read about 30%, and skimmed the rest. I took economics in college too So, IMMHO.

1) Supply and Demand has always been the primary factor, and will continue to be.

2) Folks will pay more for perceived quality, service, and peace-of-mind when choosing between breeders/suppliers, but it is secondary to #1.

3) Bragging rights apply. Chameleons are more as a collectable, IMO, than a commodity, etc. A "pretty" $400 chameleon is more valuable, and more easily boasted about, than an equally "pretty" $200 chameleon, unless the buyer of the second takes enormous pleasure in calling the buyer of the first a "dumbass". Both have helped to pay my bills.

I thank all for their patronage.

 

[KevinA]

3) Bragging rights apply. Chameleons are more as a collectable, IMO, than a commodity, etc. A "pretty" $400 chameleon is more valuable, and more easily boasted about, than an equally "pretty" $200 chameleon, unless the buyer of the second takes enormous pleasure in calling the buyer of the first a "dumbass". Both have helped to pay my bills.

Da ding!!!! I don't think I can respond better to this entire thread than that.

 

[gregdabender]

I was pleasantly surprised at the volume of posts here ! And I confess that I read about 30%, and skimmed the rest. I took economics in college too So, IMMHO.

1) Supply and Demand has always been the primary factor, and will continue to be.

2) Folks will pay more for perceived quality, service, and peace-of-mind when choosing between breeders/suppliers, but it is secondary to #1.

3) Bragging rights apply. Chameleons are more as a collectable, IMO, than a commodity, etc. A "pretty" $400 chameleon is more valuable, and more easily boasted about, than an equally "pretty" $200 chameleon, unless the buyer of the second takes enormous pleasure in calling the buyer of the first a "dumbass". Both have helped to pay my bills.

I thank all for their patronage.

.........And there we have it.....I cant wait to buy a cham from you >.<

 

[Dsignrguy]

The "wow factor", "perceived value", "fancy colours" are not valid reasons to justify the high price on pardalis for me. I'm still waiting for my questions to be answered.

Trace

He didn't ask for justification, he just asked why....and I gave him the straight up answer.
there really is no reason I see other than the ones I mentioned as to why panthers are so much more expensive the other species. Is it "right"...not really, but we live in a consumer based society, and the breeders are just doing what any good businessman would do, charge what the market will bear. tis just the way it is. I actually agree with your views, however, 99% of the people who buy chams do so for more self-absorbed reasons, and conservation is the last thing they're thinking of.

I'd love nothing more than to try my hand at captive breeding of specific endangered species, but I don't have the facilities/coin/connections.

 

[Dsignrguy]

If anyone honestly feels cbb parsonii will be commonly avaliable anytime in the near future i have crowned them as an idiot

don't you know they just grow on trees?...they must, because its illegal to export them, and NOBODY has a proven method of captive breeding....yet clutches of babies pop up now and then.



have to agree with nico on this one,
parsons are 2k+ for a reason, and that will ONLY go up unless there are some serious major breakthroughs.....I think its entirely possible that this species could disappear in our lifetime.

 

[eisentrauti]

We have here one big problem: Some peoples here live from the breeding and selling of chameleons. And the panthers are the ones which bring the most money I think.
So it's clear that everyone of them wants to keep the prices high.
But there are also a lot of people who breed and kept them as a hobby.
The number of people who keeps them is growing since years and nearly every here could breed them the only consequence is that the prices will fall.

 

[Chameleons Canada]

If we take the topic back to the Canadian market, it's true there are tons of panthers right now, you see them every were. Would I buy from the pet shop at $200? No not even for $100. Would I buy from Joe Doe from his basement? maybe, but he would have to show me the lineage of the animals, can everybody do it? No.
What I think will happen is , most of the basement breeders will disappear next year. Once their females ware off and die, they will most likely not going to replace them. Selling at so low pricing will make this business not so interesting and just like in the wild, "only the strongest will survive". I think this will be as with other pets, like dogs, you can buy with pedigree for more $ or just a regular dog for less, your choice. Although the difference might be only the "papers" My 2¢

 

[Kosmo]

It's the same old story, you get what you pay for.

If you know your breeders and know their cost breakdowns then you should know what to expect every time you're out looking for a new animal. It gotten to the point with me, that when i see a low cost panther instead of being excited i'm more curious as to what the problem is. If its too good to be true, it usually is.

 

[Chameleons Canada]

I think the reason some of the Canadian breeders are feeling some preassure is when you see a well know 2 well known breeders, selling their chams for $175 on kijiji, or other forums, what could be their reason?

 

[eisentrauti]

What I think will happen is , most of the basement breeders will disappear next year. Once their females ware off and die, they will most likely not going to replace them.

Is it so expensive to breed them ? C.calyptratus need also a lot of lamps and much electricity.
When sb ends up breeding them, with the reason that he couldn't earn more than 100-150 bucks he show that he has breed them because of the money and not because he's a chameleon fan.

 

[ChromaChameleons]

Why is passion for the hobby and profitability mutually exclusive???? It takes a one dimensional point of view to see this issue as being entirely black and white.

There are an infinite number of "shades of gray", defining dozens of motivating factors for everyone in this hobby.

Regardless of the motivation. We would see a return to large numbers of WC panthers if the CB profitability disappears. Personally, I would be out of breeding at the scale I presently produce , if the price softens , as everyone here suggests. It would not have me out of the hobby entirely. I certainly would enjoy it at a smaller scale.

I was actually incorrect , earlier, when I stated 4 defunct breeding operations in eastern Canada. Its actually 5 now, within the past 6 - 12 months. PM me if you want a list.

These very same $200 Panthers are available in limited supply. They are the " fire sale" of 2 particular breeders that are winding down their operation. It does not represent a sustainable price from any breeder, here in Canada. It does represent desperation on the part of 2 impendingly failing breeders to eliminate their available Panthers fast.

I agree with an earlier comment , that the market will decide what price will prevail. But someone placing an add at any price, out of desperation does not define the market price. It defines their price motivated by desperation.

 

[ocdirtyjerz]

I agree with what Chameleon Company was saying. There are many influences or "shades of gray" (Chroma). It is supply and demand of course, without demand there is no need for the supply. If more and more people want Parsons. I would think they may get much cheaper down the road.
Every side of what people are saying makes sense to a point. It all depends how you look at it, which has been mentioned. One could look at the short term strategy or the long term. With short term sales, the chams are going to bought on some factors as trust and quality. Prices that get lower will prevail in the long run. Its a fact. Just look at Walmart and all the other superstores, warehouses, and Internet marketing. It is what it is. Chameleons have there separate niche of a popular exotic that will grow in populrity, as it did with people wanting to breed. Having them be illegal has a small effect. Look at how drugs take over small communities. Thats a completely different topic and much more powerful.
Chroma stated, "I agree with an earlier comment , that the market will decide what price will prevail. But someone placing an add at any price, out of desperation does not define the market price. It defines their price motivated by desperation." The market will decide together, people placing an ad price is the start of declining a market price. Look at this in a line graph and you can see later the market price will come to a much lower price with S & D of the chams increasing with the more people lowering prices.

 

[eisentrauti]

Look at Kingsnake: Panthers were offered for 99 bucks, as I expected

 

[chequepoint]

Look closer, and you'll see why.

 

[christopherlaw]

My view on the panther market in Canada is that there appears (not saying there is) to be more panthers available than in the past. I have purchased my panthers from the only person I really trust up here in the great north and I have been doing business with her for 5 years.

For the longest time my biggest concern about or local expos was that it was a ball python/bearded dragon/crested gecko expo. The last expo I had to change that comment too append panther chameleon to that tag line.

Because of the cost associated with panthers, many new people have jumped into the game (and Im sure many are jumping out). Those of us who have kept panthers know we could make much more money spending less time on designer ball python morphs, but we do what we do because we are passionate. The more panthers produced (and Im talking quality specimens) the greater the drop in price.

If I could get move 30+ panthers every 3 months at even 200.00 a pop, my wife would probably not complain about the noisy crickets.

 

[wheresstimpy]

You get what you pay for...

so true, i race dirt bikes and with 30+ races a year if you cheap out you will pay for it big time, things dont last as long, work as good, they break, the list goes on... Chameleons are the same deal, you get what you pay for...

 

[THECHAMMAN]

so true, i race dirt bikes and with 30+ races a year if you cheap out you will pay for it big time, things dont last as long, work as good, they break, the list goes on... Chameleons are the same deal, you get what you pay for...

i do BMX, and it works the same way. also with the cameras i have. if you get a 500 dollar cam opposed to a 2000 dollar one, the 500$ one is gonna break and wont last as long.