Can't figure out what's up with my Panther Chameleons Eye!

[dyeLucky]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - 1 1/2 year old male panther chameleon - 192 grams (he's a little fatty...lol)
• Handling - Before eye issue, once a week
• Feeding - Superworms
• Supplements - Multivitamin by ? (I'm at work )
• Watering - Misting using my Mist King system 4 times a day.
• Fecal Description - Typical fecal matter. Urates are slighly tinged bronze from time to time.
• History - Pretty healthy, so nothing important.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - 4x2x2 lllreptile screen model
• Lighting - Reptisun 10.0 48" (covers both my panther and veiled chameleons), 60w exo terra uva bulb
• Temperature - 90-95 in basking spot during the day (from 8am - 8pm) and I'm in SC, so my reptile room/office stays around 75-80 all night.
• Humidity - 50-70 percent using my Mist King system
• Plants - WAS using golden pothos, but took them out to see if it would help. Otherwise, nothing at the moment.
• Placement - In a corner far away from the window and vent, but right across from the door/breezeway
• Location - Rock Hill, SC

Current Problem - 2 months ago, I noticed his right eye was staying closed like it was irritated. He would keep it open/closed about 50/50 of the time. He was going through a shedding, so I thought it was just because the skin was shedding over his eye. 2 weeks later, he was completely through shedding, but the eye remained problematic. I started using some eye drops I had for sensitive eyes. It seemed like it would help a little and he would keep his eye open more frequently, but the issue would not resolve so I started steamy (not too hot) showers; this seemed to help more, but still not resolve the issue. So, 3 weeks later I take him to the vet (3 weeks ago) and the vet (who was unfortunately not a specialist) gave him an oral (mouth) antibiotic that was in carob syrup because he thought he seen a pustule/pus pocket/cyst in the front of his eye, but was confused that it didn't keep him from moving his eye around. 3 weeks later, issue still not resolved, so I took him back. This time, he gave me eye drops for his eye (Ofloxacin Opthalmic) and I've been using it twice a day, using a warm wetted cotton ball after the drops are administered. This treatment is supposed to be used for 10 days (been using since Monday 8/1), but I still am not seeing tremendous improvements; it seems to help, but is still not resolving the issue. This week alone, I've went as far to remove the 2x golden pothos plants in his cage (they were hanging up on his dragon ledges with some pots I got from Ikea), cleaning the backs and side of his cage (I have corrugated plastic on the whole back and sides), and replacing his reptibark with coconut fiber/soil; I did all of this on Wednesday. I'm out of ideas guys/gals...I've already spent $200+ on this and would love to avoid going 30-45 minutes north to go to a vet...ANY IDEAS???

Phyical Condition - His turret (partially) is slightly discolored (grayish) and he keeps it closed 80-90% of the time. It doesn't look swollen, but randomly it will get huge and you can see him pushing his eye ball to the front of the turret. It almost seems like his eye is irritated by something, but with as much flushing and rubbing over the turret that I've done I should have got what ever is stuck in there out IF there is something in it.

Random - Through this whole ordeal, I've had to hand/tong (superworms bite ) feed him...I've never had to do this to make him eat...

Please feel free to reach out to me if you have any further questions or if it seems like I've missed something.

 

[Carlton]

Might be nutritional. Please describe in detail what you gutload your feeders with and what your supplement dusting schedule is. Some chams can develop a vitamin A deficiency that presents in eye problems, but this vit is easy to overdose, so we need to know what sources are in your supplements. A more varied diet including softer bodied feeders might help.
Very much doubt the plant is the problem...keep using it.
Probably not the lighting, but depending on how tall your cage is, the 10% UV might be a bit too much.
The bronze colored urate suggests dehydration, but the humidity seems OK. How do you measure it? Some cheaper pet shop analog meters are pretty inaccurate.
Temps seem high to me.
If there isn't obvious discharge from that eye and there hasn't been any sort of sensitivity culture done, chances are its not an infection, so the meds are not helping other than lubricating it.

 

[dyeLucky]

Please describe in detail what you gutload your feeders with and what your supplement dusting schedule is. Some chams can develop a vitamin A deficiency that presents in eye problems, but this vit is easy to overdose, so we need to know what sources are in your supplements. A more varied diet including softer bodied feeders might help.

I have a cup that it usually eats from and I'll let you know what I dust the superworms with. I used to use crickets, but they smell terrible and don't live long. Roach wise, my apartments I live at would kill me for bringing them in...Otherwise, I'm kind of limited to superworms for more 'softer bodied' approaches.

Very much doubt the plant is the problem...keep using it.

I'm actually going to replace those with a ficus, so he'll have a live plant soon enough.

Probably not the lighting, but depending on how tall your cage is, the 10% UV might be a bit too much.

The lights sit around 10-12 inches away from them both; the fixture sits on top of the 4ft cage.

The bronze colored urate suggests dehydration, but the humidity seems OK. How do you measure it? Some cheaper pet shop analog meters are pretty inaccurate.

I'm aware of this and please don't think I don't care, but I'm not as concerned about this one because the new plant should take care of this. He's never really had this problem before. Meter wise, I'm using an exo terra analog. I'm not worried about the humidity though because I know the humidity in my office/reptile room is high (60-75%; I battle mold sometimes...).

Temps seem high to me.

The temperature stays around 90 in the basking area, otherwise it is around 80 and lower (with the gradients).

If there isn't obvious discharge from that eye and there hasn't been any sort of sensitivity culture done, chances are its not an infection, so the meds are not helping other than lubricating it.

Definitely no discharge (thankfully).

Otherwise, if he had something in his eye, is there is anything else I can try?

ALSO, X-Rays and other vitals test show he's completely healthy (heck, he's 192 grams!).

 

[bobcochran]

Super worms are not a good base diet, hard exoskeleton, fatty interior. Silk worms would be a much better base diet, with occasional gut loaded crickets if you can't do Dubia, or even gut loaded super worms, occasionally. If you keep the crickets clean they won't smell!

 

[dyeLucky]

Super worms are not a good base diet, hard exoskeleton, fatty interior. Silk worms would be a much better base diet, with occasional gut loaded crickets if you can't do Dubia, or even gut loaded super worms, occasionally. If you keep the crickets clean they won't smell!

Interesting...All the vets I've spoken to recently (reptile specialist), plus all the extra research I've done says that gutloaded super worms are excellent food bases. They have softer exoskeletons then a mealworm and are higher in calcium and other nutrients. For the silk worm part, where is a good place to get them without breaking the bank? Because crickets (I used them for 6 months...) and dubias are out of the question.

@Carlton - I use ReptoLife plus supplement and Flukers Calcium (w/o Vitamin d3).

 

[dyeLucky]

In addition, Here is pics of Kimahri and his setup. As you can see, his eye is open in these pics.

View media item 43203View media item 43202View media item 43201View media item 43200

 

[Chameleon Mike]

Order crickets online. There is a supplier on this site. They will cost a fraction of the price compared to poet stores.

 

[Carlton]

There are roach species that are a lot less likely to escape a bin and even if they do, are a lot less likely to breed. B. dubia roaches move relatively slowly and don't climb much (so easier to keep confined). They also require temps above 80 F. to breed. So, if you live in a cooler northern climate and the building isn't kept over that temp, they probably won't colonize. I a lot of ways they've replaced crix as staple feeders.

 

[bobcochran]

Interesting...All the vets I've spoken to recently (reptile specialist), plus all the extra research I've done says that gutloaded super worms are excellent food bases. They have softer exoskeletons then a mealworm and are higher in calcium and other nutrients. For the silk worm part, where is a good place to get them without breaking the bank? Because crickets (I used them for 6 months...) and dubias are out of the question.

@Carlton - I use ReptoLife plus supplement and Flukers Calcium (w/o Vitamin d3).

While super worms are better than meal worm, they're still not a good base diet, too fatty, too much chitin. You could check out Calciworms ,they're black soldier fly larvae and are very high in calcium, you can gut load t them too. If some pupate and turn into flies, you simply feed the flies to your chameleon. Silk worm eggs can be ordered on line and delivered by mail. Silk worm eggs can be kept in the refrigerator, taking small amounts out as needed. Also they can be raised on silkworm chow year round.

 

[Chameleon Mike]

There are roach species that are a lot less likely to escape a bin and even if they do, are a lot less likely to breed. B. dubia roaches move relatively slowly and don't climb much (so easier to keep confined). They also require temps above 80 F. to breed. So, if you live in a cooler northern climate and the building isn't kept over that temp, they probably won't colonize. I a lot of ways they've replaced crix as staple feeders.

That's what I did. I only use crix once in a while for variety.

 

[guanagator]

He needs more feeder variety, likely at 190g because of the fatty super worms. They are better than mealworms but your really need a more nutritious base feeder that's properly gut loaded for long term health. For supplements hopefully you've been dusting with repashy cal plus that's the only supplement that can be used by itself for panther chameleons. My guess is a vit a issue, I wish you the best of luck getting him back on track. I would start a Dubia colony if I was you, the aversion to roaches is overblown, you can easily keep a healthy dubia colony going in a medium plastic tote with no smell and way less chance of escape than crickets.

 

[dyeLucky]

Ficus added.

That will pick the humidity up.

 

[dyeLucky]

There are roach species that are a lot less likely to escape a bin and even if they do, are a lot less likely to breed. B. dubia roaches move relatively slowly and don't climb much (so easier to keep confined). They also require temps above 80 F. to breed. So, if you live in a cooler northern climate and the building isn't kept over that temp, they probably won't colonize. I a lot of ways they've replaced crix as staple feeders.

I live in SC, so I'll be fine with the temps...

 

[dyeLucky]

He needs more feeder variety, likely at 190g because of the fatty super worms. They are better than mealworms but your really need a more nutritious base feeder that's properly gut loaded for long term health. For supplements hopefully you've been dusting with repashy cal plus that's the only supplement that can be used by itself for panther chameleons. My guess is a vit a issue, I wish you the best of luck getting him back on track. I would start a Dubia colony if I was you, the aversion to roaches is overblown, you can easily keep a healthy dubia colony going in a medium plastic tote with no smell and way less chance of escape than crickets.

No, I haven't been using repashy cal plus, but I'll buy it and try it. I use ReptoLife plus supplement and Flukers Calcium (w/o Vitamin d3) right now.

I would love to try the dubia thing, but I'm afraid I'll get kicked out of my apartment...

Maybe, it's worth the hassle.

 

[Chameleon Mike]

I would love to try the dubia thing, but I'm afraid I'll get kicked out of my apartment...

The tote would fit in a closet. No one would probably see it.

 

[dyeLucky]

The tote would fit in a closet. No one would probably see it.

True...I'm also afraid they may get a bit out of control with the colony growth...Though, I do have 2 bearded dragons, 3 leopard geckos, and 2 chams so it shouldn't be too hard to decimate the colony (if necessary). My dragons have a veracious appetite.

 

[Peachypink]

I have a beardie too and I can always feed off my larger Dubia to her. She was my population control. The Dubia are my staple. It took me a while to get used to them but in the long run they have become my favorite feeder. I've been using them for at least 5 years now. They are easy, don't stink if you keep them cleaned out, don't climb and the grow slow so I can order 500 or more at a time and they don't get too big for my Cham. If they do, I got the beardie. I did breed them for a while but I stopped for a while when we moved and just hasn't started back up yet. And I hardly ever get dead ones. Even in shipping.

 

[Peachypink]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - 1 1/2 year old male panther chameleon - 192 grams (he's a little fatty...lol)
• Handling - Before eye issue, once a week
• Feeding - Superworms
• Supplements - Multivitamin by ? (I'm at work )
• Watering - Misting using my Mist King system 4 times a day.
• Fecal Description - Typical fecal matter. Urates are slighly tinged bronze from time to time.
• History - Pretty healthy, so nothing important.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - 4x2x2 lllreptile screen model
• Lighting - Reptisun 10.0 48" (covers both my panther and veiled chameleons), 60w exo terra uva bulb
• Temperature - 90-95 in basking spot during the day (from 8am - 8pm) and I'm in SC, so my reptile room/office stays around 75-80 all night.
• Humidity - 50-70 percent using my Mist King system
• Plants - WAS using golden pothos, but took them out to see if it would help. Otherwise, nothing at the moment.
• Placement - In a corner far away from the window and vent, but right across from the door/breezeway
• Location - Rock Hill, SC

Current Problem - 2 months ago, I noticed his right eye was staying closed like it was irritated. He would keep it open/closed about 50/50 of the time. He was going through a shedding, so I thought it was just because the skin was shedding over his eye. 2 weeks later, he was completely through shedding, but the eye remained problematic. I started using some eye drops I had for sensitive eyes. It seemed like it would help a little and he would keep his eye open more frequently, but the issue would not resolve so I started steamy (not too hot) showers; this seemed to help more, but still not resolve the issue. So, 3 weeks later I take him to the vet (3 weeks ago) and the vet (who was unfortunately not a specialist) gave him an oral (mouth) antibiotic that was in carob syrup because he thought he seen a pustule/pus pocket/cyst in the front of his eye, but was confused that it didn't keep him from moving his eye around. 3 weeks later, issue still not resolved, so I took him back. This time, he gave me eye drops for his eye (Ofloxacin Opthalmic) and I've been using it twice a day, using a warm wetted cotton ball after the drops are administered. This treatment is supposed to be used for 10 days (been using since Monday 8/1), but I still am not seeing tremendous improvements; it seems to help, but is still not resolving the issue. This week alone, I've went as far to remove the 2x golden pothos plants in his cage (they were hanging up on his dragon ledges with some pots I got from Ikea), cleaning the backs and side of his cage (I have corrugated plastic on the whole back and sides), and replacing his reptibark with coconut fiber/soil; I did all of this on Wednesday. I'm out of ideas guys/gals...I've already spent $200+ on this and would love to avoid going 30-45 minutes north to go to a vet...ANY IDEAS???

Phyical Condition - His turret (partially) is slightly discolored (grayish) and he keeps it closed 80-90% of the time. It doesn't look swollen, but randomly it will get huge and you can see him pushing his eye ball to the front of the turret. It almost seems like his eye is irritated by something, but with as much flushing and rubbing over the turret that I've done I should have got what ever is stuck in there out IF there is something in it.

Random - Through this whole ordeal, I've had to hand/tong (superworms bite ) feed him...I've never had to do this to make him eat...

Please feel free to reach out to me if you have any further questions or if it seems like I've missed something.

I wanted to weigh in on this. I had a panther that had gotten an eye infection and was given the same drops as you. However, I was given a different set of directions. I gave them 4 times a day and when I did, I had to hold him sideways with the affected eye up. Put a drop in and hold him there for 30 seconds the let him go. I did this for 10 days. And then twice a day for another week. I feel like the wet cotton ball is would just wash out the medicine you just put in so I'm not sure why he's having you do that.

 

[dyeLucky]

I wanted to weigh in on this. I had a panther that had gotten an eye infection and was given the same drops as you. However, I was given a different set of directions. I gave them 4 times a day and when I did, I had to hold him sideways with the affected eye up. Put a drop in and hold him there for 30 seconds the let him go. I did this for 10 days. And then twice a day for another week. I feel like the wet cotton ball is would just wash out the medicine you just put in so I'm not sure why he's having you do that.

Yeah, I'm going to try that instead @Peachypink. Also, my guy wasn't a reptile specialist, but was familiar with them. I am also unsure if mine really has an eye infection as he has no infection coming out.

How did you drop the liquid in his eye? I can't get Kimarhi to keep his eye open for me to put the medicine in because he knows I'm trying to do it or something.

UPDATE - Also, I got a decent dubia roach colony starting and purchased some Repashy Calcium Plus, so I'll try using these and see how things go.

 

[PJK]

Dubia are one of the better base feeders. They are easy to maintain, and they don't really "infest" like you are probably having nightmares about. The reason you cannot have them in Florida is because the average temperatures throughout the year are their breeding temps and they don't want them to become an invasive problem, but they are cleaner, quieter, easier to take care of, and more nutritious than crickets.