Cham gone crazy!

[Belle]

I need help! My female Carpet, Boo (my third cham) has never liked being handled and will hiss and even strike out at me. However, with patience I have been able to pick her up and take her outside for sunshine, which she loves. Usually the longer my hand is in the tank, the calmer she becomes until I can pick her up. Once she is on my hand, she is fine,and sometimes doesn't want to get off. Yesterday though, when I went close to her she seemed to be calming down, but suddenly went crazy - puffing, hissing, striking and going black with white spots. I decided to take her food out of her tank and start to hand-feed her to try to overcome her fear, and today sat for about ten minutes with a waxworm on my hand beside her. She seemed quite calm and at one point I thought she was actually going to take the worm, but then she started to turn away from me so I put the worm back in its box. As I did, Boo went nuts again - and I wasn't even near her! She struck out and even bit a branch and her own tail, then scrambled to the top of her tree so fast she nearly fell off several times. She is 11 months old and has been eating and pooing less recently than is normal. Although I have seen urea, for the past few days it is not attached to brown poo (that I can see). She was eating only banded crickets (about six G3 per day) but about a month ago I introduced mealworms which she likes occasionally. She is six inches long nose to tip. Her viv is 4'x2.5x2.5 vertical with plenty of cover, and she has a T5 12% UVB bulb. Temp is between 65 and 90 (basking) and humidity is 65%-70%. She seems quite active and normal, and is not displaying any gravid behaviour, but this sudden anger has me worried

 

[Miss Lily]

My male Carpet was evil too. I've had 3 Veileds, 2 Jacksons and the only one to ever bite me in 8 years was my Carpet! Maybe your girl is gravid and feeling more grumpy than usual. Do you have a lay box in her cage ready?

 

[Belle]

She's not showing other symptoms but I will certainly put it in her tank just in case it helps

 

[jajeanpierre]

The behavior you are describing suggests an extremely stressed animal and one that is on the decline. Her lack of stool means she is not eating.

It seems to me you are terrorizing this animal. If you want to take her out, take her out. Don't drag out the stress. Whenever you do something stressful with an animal, you want to get it over quickly.

An animal that sits "calmly" on your hand is not necessarily a calm animal. Very often terrified chameleons will sit on a hand. That observation, sitting "calmly" on a hand, tells me nothing about the inner workings of your chameleon's mind.

You need to completely rethink how you interact with your animal. A declining animal (one who isn't eating) needs more than anything to have all stress removed and that includes putting your hand in her cage.

This is your third chameleon you say. What happened to the first two? How long did you have them?

 

[Andee]

I agree with jajeanpierre. Can you post pictures of her and the cage? She sounds extremely stressed.

 

[Belle]

The behavior you are describing suggests an extremely stressed animal and one that is on the decline. Her lack of stool means she is not eating.

It seems to me you are terrorizing this animal. If you want to take her out, take her out. Don't drag out the stress. Whenever you do something stressful with an animal, you want to get it over quickly.

An animal that sits "calmly" on your hand is not necessarily a calm animal. Very often terrified chameleons will sit on a hand. That observation, sitting "calmly" on a hand, tells me nothing about the inner workings of your chameleon's mind.

You need to completely rethink how you interact with your animal. A declining animal (one who isn't eating) needs more than anything to have all stress removed and that includes putting your hand in her cage.

This is your third chameleon you say. What happened to the first two? How long did you have them?

Thanks for your reply but I take exception to your comment that I am 'terrorizing' my cham!

My first cham (Senegal) was very sociable and lived for six years. My second was far less so (got him as an adult) and so I did not handle him much in consideration of that, and he died due to mishandling by an ignorant vet. I hoped that getting Boo as a baby would mean I would be able to handle her without stress BUT when that turned out not to be the case I was very conscious of NOT stressing her, and only handled her when necessary, on average once or twice a week. She has in the past even walked onto my hand to come out, so her recent extreme behaviour is out of character. Most of the time she is in her tank in a very quiet house. However, I am reluctant to give up on handling her entirely because of cage cleaning, vital sunshine during the summer and in case she ever needs veterinary intervention.

Right now I have covered the sides of her tank and put in a lay bin in case she is gravid.

This morning she ate six crickets.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Thanks for your reply but I take exception to your comment that I am 'terrorizing' my cham!

My first cham (Senegal) was very sociable and lived for six years. My second was far less so (got him as an adult) and so I did not handle him much in consideration of that, and he died due to mishandling by an ignorant vet. I hoped that getting Boo as a baby would mean I would be able to handle her without stress BUT when that turned out not to be the case I was very conscious of NOT stressing her, and only handled her when necessary, on average once or twice a week. She has in the past even walked onto my hand to come out, so her recent extreme behaviour is out of character. Most of the time she is in her tank in a very quiet house. However, I am reluctant to give up on handling her entirely because of cage cleaning, vital sunshine during the summer and in case she ever needs veterinary intervention.

Right now I have covered the sides of her tank and put in a lay bin in case she is gravid.

This morning she ate six crickets.

Unless you objectively look at the behaviors you are getting and what precedes those behaviors, you will learn nothing. Read your original post again, but try to read it objectively. Try not to feel the need to defend yourself or make yourself appear better (we are all guilty of that!) because it just gets in the way of improving one's husbandry practices.

"has never liked being handled and will hiss and even strike out at me"

"suddenly went crazy - puffing, hissing, striking and going black with white spots"

"decided to take her food out of her tank and start to hand-feed her to try to overcome her fear"

"sat for about ten minutes with a waxworm on my hand beside her"

"Boo went nuts again - and I wasn't even near her! She struck out and even bit a branch and her own tail, then scrambled to the top of her tree so fast she nearly fell off several times."

What you described in your last statement is a description of an animal in a panic. Be honest with yourself about what is going on with this animal.

I have a couple of pretty spooky wild caughts. A couple will throw themselves on the ground and flail in a panic as @jpowell86 can attest to. I will still handle these panicking animals, but try to do it firmly and quickly and not very often. I try to mitigate their negative interactions with me but some can't be helped.

 

[Andee]

I would still like to see pictures, of her enclosure if I could? Maybe she needs something changed? In my opinion the fact that you covered her cage and she ate, shows that she is more relaxed, so maybe she feels exposed? Maybe she needs more cover? I would take a picture and then leave her alone for a few days and do only the necessities.

 

[Belle]

I would still like to see pictures, of her enclosure if I could? Maybe she needs something changed? In my opinion the fact that you covered her cage and she ate, shows that she is more relaxed, so maybe she feels exposed? Maybe she needs more cover? I would take a picture and then leave her alone for a few days and do only the necessities.

Andee, Thanks. I took a pic of her setup but unfortunately cannot upload it. It is a glass viv with fans and vents, placed in a dark corner of a very quiet room. I shall certainly keep the sides covered, but inside her tank she does have plenty of cover. Often takes me a long time to spot her! She has two drippers, a big ficus, a fake trailing ivy (from the top of the viv) and about six metres of repti-vine as well as natural branches and camoflage netting covering the back wall, which is wood. Her basking spot is near the back of the viv, not exposed at the front. She generally feeds from a tub, although mealworms and escaped crickets can climb the walls which are lined with mesh. She is not showing any signs of restlessness near the bottom of the viv, but her colours are a little heightened at all times for the past few days - not extreme blacks but showing the black rings on her green skin. She does not appear to be full of eggs.

Jajeanpierre, I am trying to address a sudden and extreme change in behaviour using sensitivity and a willingness to learn. Like you, I try to handle my girl as little as possible, although many other cham keepers have stressed a gentle, non-grabby approach, which I prefer when handling is necessary. But if I were the person who wrote the words below, I would not be pontificating about other people 'terrorizing' their chams.

I have a couple of pretty spooky wild caughts. A couple will throw themselves on the ground and flail in a panic as @jpowell86 can attest to. I will still handle these panicking animals, but try to do it firmly and quickly and not very often. I try to mitigate their negative interactions with me but some can't be helped.

 

[Andee]

I would try hand feeding again in maybe three to five days of minimal interaction. It sounds like she may have gotten spooked, what that may be by, it can be hard to tell... however keep an eye out for any specifically worrying signs. Dehydration, not eating, trouble climbing, general lethargy. You know the normal chameleon worries. Sometimes they get spooked by weird things that make little to no sense to us but make perfect sense to them. Just be very vigilant the next few days.

 

[Belle]

I would try hand feeding again in maybe three to five days of minimal interaction. It sounds like she may have gotten spooked, what that may be by, it can be hard to tell... however keep an eye out for any specifically worrying signs. Dehydration, not eating, trouble climbing, general lethargy. You know the normal chameleon worries. Sometimes they get spooked by weird things that make little to no sense to us but make perfect sense to them. Just be very vigilant the next few days.

Yep, I am leaving her be. Which, frankly, is what I do most of the time! I do hand-mist twice a day but she seems to enjoy that, and will stretch towards me. I will try hand-feeding again in a few days but don't want to risk interrupting her progress in that department. My only concern is to have a happy chameleon but I understand that they are all so different that that will take an individual approach to get it right without undue stress. Thanks.

 

[Belle]

My male Carpet was evil too. I've had 3 Veileds, 2 Jacksons and the only one to ever bite me in 8 years was my Carpet! Maybe your girl is gravid and feeling more grumpy than usual. Do you have a lay box in her cage ready?

lol this makes me feel slightly better! I was assured Carpets were super-docile but I'm starting to wonder... Yes I have put a lay bin in her cage just in case Also covered the sides of her viv and this morning she ate. Fingers crossed...

 

[jajeanpierre]

Jajeanpierre, I am trying to address a sudden and extreme change in behaviour using sensitivity and a willingness to learn. Like you, I try to handle my girl as little as possible, although many other cham keepers have stressed a gentle, non-grabby approach, which I prefer when handling is necessary. But if I were the person who wrote the words below, I would not be pontificating about other people 'terrorizing' their chams.

Perhaps I have a pretty good understanding of what a terrorized chameleon looks and acts like which might make me a bit of an expert on the subject. You asked for help, and I gave you feedback based on your own words/observations. You are free to dismiss my insight but I really don't think insulting me was called for @Belle.

 

[Belle]

Perhaps I have a pretty good understanding of what a terrorized chameleon looks and acts like which might make me a bit of an expert on the subject. You asked for help, and I gave you feedback based on your own words/observations. You are free to dismiss my insight but I really don't think insulting me was called for @Belle.

Indeed. It sounds like you have a pretty good understanding of what a terrorized chameleon looks and acts like from the personal experience of your own terrorized and panicky wild-caughts. Having never seen a panicked chameleon myself - possibly due to years of sensitive handling - I can only defer to you on this point.

I did not insult you. I gave you feedback based on your own words/observations.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

@Belle I don't have any experience with carpets but do with other lizards . I'm wondering if with her age and the change in behavior could it be kinda like a teenager ? I only have one chameleon Frances we rarely handle her but she's out all the time we let her do what she wants and climb on us if she want . She as well has become a bit crazy if we do try to handle her and she does not like glasses . So we try not to handle her unless it's body check day or cleaning day . We just open her enclosure and she comes out goes on her tree in a window .

I guess I'm wondering with her age could it be a similar thing being a teen ? Happy she seems better with the changes you have made hope she gets back to her norm quickly . It's so hard to have a scard baby not be sure why or what is bothering them .

 

[Angelwolf]

As someone else said, they can become suddenly spooked of the silliest thing, which makes no sense to us humans, but perfect sense in their own lizard mind. It could be anything that is scary, from a freckle on your arm, to the color of the drapes in the window. All she is doing is telling you that she doesn't like something. What that something is, only she knows. So perhaps change your approach. It may have even been an isolated incident, and now you have to regain her trust. Either way, don't push her into being handled. Especially when it's not necessary.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Indeed. It sounds like you have a pretty good understanding of what a terrorized chameleon looks and acts like from the personal experience of your own terrorized and panicky wild-caughts. Having never seen a panicked chameleon myself - possibly due to years of sensitive handling - I can only defer to you on this point.

I did not insult you. I gave you feedback based on your own words/observations.

You most certainly did insult me.

I gave you feedback on the behavior/handling problems you are having with your chameleon. Take it or leave it, but there is no need to insult me.

In closing, I have to comment that your "sensitive handling" doesn't seem very sensitive at all. If it was, you would never have had an issue and would have solved this yourself. It seems you created this issue because you didn't listen to your chameleon. That you can't see it suggests poor observational skills. Just my two cents as someone who has studied behavior analysis. Again, take it or leave it but no more insults please.

 

[CharlieCharmingo]

You don't by any chance have any other pets do you? I have a cat that sometimes sneaks into the room when I'm not paying attention and Tony always sees him before I do and his whole attitude will change. He'll rock and make himself as small as possible to avoid the cat even if he can no longer see him but also didn't see me physically take him out of the room.
Also, you said this behavior is sudden? Could it be a possible change in temperatures attitude? Like maybe it's gotten too hot or too cold for her being as the seasons are changing?
Did she use the lay bin at all?
I'm glad to hear she's ate some crickets since you covered the cage. My guess would be, as what someone else has already said, something probably scared her. Is there any reflective glass or anything in the room with her?
I've read that some chameleons personalities change to hostile when they get older. It could very well be that too.
Hopefully you figure out a way to upload pictures, they would very much help. Still maybe just leave her be for a while.
Good luck!

 

[Belle]

Thanks for all your advice. I covered the sides of Boo's viv and there have been no further incidents. She is now eating and pooing fine again and not reacting to me at all - other than keeping a beady eye! Not sure I'll ever know what scared her so badly - maybe just part of becoming mature, as her colours remain more heightened than before.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

Thanks for all your advice. I covered the sides of Boo's viv and there have been no further incidents. She is now eating and pooing fine again and not reacting to me at all - other than keeping a beady eye! Not sure I'll ever know what scared her so badly - maybe just part of becoming mature, as her colours remain more heightened than before.

Yay that's great news !!. Happy she's well .