Chameleon "experts" (and to those looking for a first time chameleon)
- Thread starter OldChamKeeper
- Start date
CC's Baby
Avid Member
Matt Vanilla Gorilla
Chameleon Enthusiast
I will private message you!
@Beman This is awesome! It is amazing what happens when we stop trying to force our chameleon into being something we want and just let them be what they are. I have learned so much since my mindset changed!
@Carlton You got a deremensis to bite you? Was he really trying to give you a message or did he think there was something on your ear good to eat? This one goes down in the books. T. deremensis attacks are few and far between!
@nick barta , we can't even drive to the gas station for $.29!!! You bring up a very strange dynamic. For some reason old practices seem to come back around. Pet stores in the 70s/80s were recommending using bubblers for hydration. The problems were the cleanliness needed and training the chameleon to drink from a fountain of sorts. They did learn how to do this, but as soon as we could, we keepers jumped onto misters as a huge improvement. But recently I see more people working with bubblers. This isn't supposed to be like fashion where trends come back around!
PLEASE HELP! Open request to all community members! How did you hear about bubblers as a hydration method and where is this advice coming from? I have tried to track it down, but can't find the source!
OldChamKeeper
Chameleon Enthusiast
Petco. I saw them doing it once last time I got dragged into a store. Also heard it was on a FB posting or such. Stupid stuff.
The purpose behind a bubbler is that they are far cheaper than a mister and less labor intensive than a human hand misting. In a small commercial display they can work to a degree with younger animals....but only under those narrow conditions. They should not be used by folks at home in a permanent cage.
Lots of reddit support from what I've heard, but I have no time for visiting there.
celeste_knitter
Chameleon Enthusiast
I read about fountains being recommended on a untrustworthy Facebook group. Most of their info was dubious. From a medical perspective, it didn't make sense to me so I left that group & found this forum.
OldChamKeeper
Chameleon Enthusiast
Fountains should not be used. If you think they are ok for your chams to drink from, then you should chance it and drink from it yourself....
On a serious note, while once in a while they work out for the cham and keeper, there are far more times where that fountain gets contaminated and the cham suffers for it. To me, people promoting a fountain are lazy keepers looking to cut corners and get others to join them. Stick with a dripper, hand misting, or get a mist king.
On a serious note, while once in a while they work out for the cham and keeper, there are far more times where that fountain gets contaminated and the cham suffers for it. To me, people promoting a fountain are lazy keepers looking to cut corners and get others to join them. Stick with a dripper, hand misting, or get a mist king.
The problem is that the people I have heard about that try and push these fringe ideas weave together a completely logical sounding argument that only experienced people know is completely ridiculous. I had a guy come up to me at a show and insist that his chameleon got a bacterial infection from licking water off of leaves and so he was pushing bubblers/still water as the healthy solution. You could tell his ego was already wrapped up in his revolutionary idea so there was no reasoning with him.
The trap is that it could have been the case that his chameleon got a bacterial infection from licking water off of his leaves. If you have a plastic (or even regular) leaf that collects water and you keep your terrarium constantly wet then there will be bacteria all over. But in this case the entire cage husbandry is off. The cage could have dried out between misting, but it could have been the way he maintained his water reservoir for his mister. We have way too many people that don't test their conclusions before declaring them correct and jump to the internet to fight for their piece of digital territory. (Example: You have a hypothesis that hydration by misting causes bacterial infections. Excellent! Now try and prove it wrong before saying it is right. Answer how your hypothesis accounts for the tens of thousands of people who use misters and do not experience bacterial infections. In doing so, you end up with a much more accurate answer.)
Yep, there is enough work keeping the people here taken care of! I wonder if that bacterial infection guy is Reddit man....I'd hate to think there are more of them out there. That is going in the wrong direction and beginning keepers don't need to start with that kind of handicap.
CC's Baby
Avid Member
Hi there ! So yes, I was reading about that before that fountains are a NONO!! -- I know I am looking to get a little dripper and then also a misting system. So from your personal experience, is the Mist King the best or I also saw a monsoon. I am assuming these are on timers? And, I was also hoping to find a resource on the lighting that we can put them on timers as well?
KRGEE21
Avid Member
CC's Baby
Avid Member
wow, that is pretty awesome! It worked so fast too!!!!
dshuld
Chameleon Enthusiast
That clip could have been better explained on the show. They caught a ton of backlash over it on fb and explained on fb what should have been discussed when that clip aired though I can't seem to find the post now. They said Dewey does have a full enclosure setup with mist king but was a little dehydrated. They stated that was a temp cage for the segment and that the "bubbler" was not going to be a permanent fixture of her cage, that they were only using it in the temp cage to help hydrate her.
I remember the thread where the reddit people came here to defend their shot glass watering
.As someone that I still consider "some what new" to keeping chams considering I'm only 14/ 15 months into keeping them I whole heartedly agree on finding a great mentor. Mine has been @Matt Vanilla Gorilla and though as he noted to me the other day I've grown independent for the most part, I do still ask his thoughts on various things. As said by @DeremensisBlue , some things are better learned through the experiences over the years of keeping/ breeding and, in Matt's case, dealing with wild chams in your front yard as a kid too
. Though I do research as much as I can as time allows, I wouldn't be as far a long in this hobby as I am with out Matt and Jessica to say the least.Needless to say with who I bought my first from, I started with panthers though a baby veiled in my local reptile shop "jumpstarted" my wanting a chameleon again. I had originally looked at possibly getting a one in the late 90's but my parents stopped that thought quick and then again in 2003/ 04. I was dealing with some personal issues after the Army at that point though and decided it wasn't a good idea for the animals sake. In 2017 I thought about getting back into snake keeping so I took my wife into the shop to look around and see how she would handle it lol. We saw a veiled that we both liked after looking at the snakes so I told her I would look into it again but that I hadn't previously because I felt I would fail the little one with all the environmental requirements they have which is when I came here to start researching again. Now that I've shared more personal info then I care to have done publicly or that anyone here cares to have read...most of my cham journey has been shared here since then lol.
I have a few pieces of advice for those just starting or looking to start with chameleons beyond the finding a mentor.
First would be, research research research and when you think you've researched enough, research a little more. Keep researching even after you've started your collection be it one chameleon or a few.
My second would be listen to the longer time keepers when they say go slow with your collecting. Make sure your husbandry is on point before getting your second, third or however many you end up with. I know that one may come across as hypocritical coming from me of all people considering how rapidly my collection has grown in my time here but, If you have a good mentor, your husbandry is where it needs to be and you follow proper quarantine procedures I personally don't see the problem with it.
My third would be, get something like the acurite temp and humidity station (~$9) to track how your house "runs" while doing all of your research. Though I live in Fl, I can tell you the main part of my house stays between 45-50% rh during the day and nights typically average 60% rh with what I have and how my a/c runs. Both bedrooms stay fairly close to that as well but since most of my chams are in the bedrooms they are naturally higher. Before you get your cham build out your cage and track how it reacts with your house and vice versa to get you into the target range for your chams needs. This will give you the time needed to play with covering a side or two or three if needed before bringing the precious little being into your home. For me, in my situation, 3 sides works perfectly for my target with my water schedule.
My fourth, don't be afraid of using glass like the exo-terra or zoo-med cages. Something I have seen over and over, not just here, and am guilty of repeating myself when I was going specifically by the care guides is to staying with screen cages. @Goose502 is a well of knowledge with them that I don't think enough buckets have been dipped into tbh and is pretty active here. Though I doubt any other Floridians will admit to using them, I've been messing with an exo the last couple of months to track how they would react to my house like I did with the screen cages. In my situation, with the 18*18*36 test cage with my normal misting schedule, it does take an AC Infinity s3 muffin fan on top to stay at my target rh range during the day. Please don't take this as me saying run out and change cage styles though. My main cham room needs to go back to being mainly a bedroom due to my daughter moving in so I had to look at other options for elsewhere in my house
.Last piece of advise, ask your mentor/ here questions, tons and ton of questions if you're not sure about something. Though a lot of my questions after the first month or so for Matt were about stuff I had read or my "hair brain" ideas, I'm happy I asked or discussed the subject. As they say, the only stupid question is the one you don't ask
.
Matt Vanilla Gorilla
Chameleon Enthusiast
Thanks for the kudos sir! Much appreciated!That clip could have been better explained on the show. They caught a ton of backlash over it on fb and explained on fb what should have been discussed when that clip aired though I can't seem to find the post now. They said Dewey does have a full enclosure setup with mist king but was a little dehydrated. They stated that was a temp cage for the segment and that the "bubbler" was not going to be a permanent fixture of her cage, that they were only using it in the temp cage to help hydrate her.
I remember the thread where the reddit people came here to defend their shot glass watering
As someone that I still consider "some what new" to keeping chams considering I'm only 14/ 15 months into keeping them I whole heartedly agree on finding a great mentor. Mine has been @Matt Vanilla Gorilla and though as he noted to me the other day I've grown independent for the most part, I do still ask his thoughts on various things. As said by @DeremensisBlue , some things are better learned through the experiences over the years of keeping/ breeding and, in Matt's case, dealing with wild chams in your front yard as a kid too
Needless to say with who I bought my first from, I started with panthers though a baby veiled in my local reptile shop "jumpstarted" my wanting a chameleon again. I had originally looked at possibly getting a one in the late 90's but my parents stopped that thought quick and then again in 2003/ 04. I was dealing with some personal issues after the Army at that point though and decided it wasn't a good idea for the animals sake. In 2017 I thought about getting back into snake keeping so I took my wife into the shop to look around and see how she would handle it lol. We saw a veiled that we both liked after looking at the snakes so I told her I would look into it again but that I hadn't previously because I felt I would fail the little one with all the environmental requirements they have which is when I came here to start researching again. Now that I've shared more personal info then I care to have done publicly or that anyone here cares to have read...most of my cham journey has been shared here since then lol.
I have a few pieces of advice for those just starting or looking to start with chameleons beyond the finding a mentor.
First would be, research research research and when you think you've researched enough, research a little more. Keep researching even after you've started your collection be it one chameleon or a few.
My second would be listen to the longer time keepers when they say go slow with your collecting. Make sure your husbandry is on point before getting your second, third or however many you end up with. I know that one may come across as hypocritical coming from me of all people considering how rapidly my collection has grown in my time here but, If you have a good mentor, your husbandry is where it needs to be and you follow proper quarantine procedures I personally don't see the problem with it.
My third would be, get something like the acurite temp and humidity station (~$9) to track how your house "runs" while doing all of your research. Though I live in Fl, I can tell you the main part of my house stays between 45-50% rh during the day and nights typically average 60% rh with what I have and how my a/c runs. Both bedrooms stay fairly close to that as well but since most of my chams are in the bedrooms they are naturally higher. Before you get your cham build out your cage and track how it reacts with your house and vice versa to get you into the target range for your chams needs. This will give you the time needed to play with covering a side or two or three if needed before bringing the precious little being into your home. For me, in my situation, 3 sides works perfectly for my target with my water schedule.
My fourth, don't be afraid of using glass like the exo-terra or zoo-med cages. Something I have seen over and over, not just here, and am guilty of repeating myself when I was going specifically by the care guides is to staying with screen cages. @Goose502 is a well of knowledge with them that I don't think enough buckets have been dipped into tbh and is pretty active here. Though I doubt any other Floridians will admit to using them, I've been messing with an exo the last couple of months to track how they would react to my house like I did with the screen cages. In my situation, with the 18*18*36 test cage with my normal misting schedule, it does take an AC Infinity s3 muffin fan on top to stay at my target rh range during the day. Please don't take this as me saying run out and change cage styles though. My main cham room needs to go back to being mainly a bedroom due to my daughter moving in so I had to look at other options for elsewhere in my house
Last piece of advise, ask your mentor/ here questions, tons and ton of questions if you're not sure about something. Though a lot of my questions after the first month or so for Matt were about stuff I had read or my "hair brain" ideas, I'm happy I asked or discussed the subject. As they say, the only stupid question is the one you don't ask
I got my first chameleon in September 2018. I decided to go with a panther chameleon because that's where my heart was. Whenever I saw a panther chameleon a big smile would come across my face (not in a creepy way haha). I did about 2 years of research before I got my 3 month old Ambilobe, Neptune. This consisted of hours of YouTube videos, Bill's podcasts, lurking on the forums, going into my local reptile shop (not Petco) multiple times and just asking questions and watching the chameleons. Someone I talked to while doing my research suggested I start out with a crested gecko because I had never owned a reptile before. But after seeing them in the pet store I just knew chameleons were the one for me. While chameleon's are considered advanced reptiles, I knew if I got everything set up right, my little guy would be just fine. Once I decided to bite the bullet and get a chameleon I had my laundry list of everything I needed to get set up. Because I didn't rush into it I was able to score some good deals like getting a Dragon Strand 2x2x4 enclosure off of Craig's list for a steal. Neptune's enclosure was ready for him about a month before I got him. This gave me a chance to get my temps and misting cycles right and have the good people of the forums make sure I was on track. I waited until Labor Day to buy my chameleon because the reptile shop always has holiday sales. Then I had to wait a week to pick him up because he was a new arrival and still in quarantine at the time.
After bringing Neptune home, I got in touch with a chameleon mentor off of one of the Facebook groups to be able to ask miscellaneous questions here or there. Neptune has been thriving and growing everyday. He his getting more and more comfortable around me although I think handling is a ways down the road for us. Although I don't claim to be a chameleon expert, I feel confident enough to help new keepers with basic husbandry questions and try to impart the knowledge I do have onto other future chameleon enthusiasts.
My advice:
- Get the chameleon that speaks to you (as long as you can provide the right care).
- Don't cut corners.
- Be patient. Not only with your chameleon, but with other keepers as well.
If you want to follow along with Neptune's adventures he has his own Instagram: @Neptunethechameleon.
After bringing Neptune home, I got in touch with a chameleon mentor off of one of the Facebook groups to be able to ask miscellaneous questions here or there. Neptune has been thriving and growing everyday. He his getting more and more comfortable around me although I think handling is a ways down the road for us. Although I don't claim to be a chameleon expert, I feel confident enough to help new keepers with basic husbandry questions and try to impart the knowledge I do have onto other future chameleon enthusiasts.
My advice:
- Get the chameleon that speaks to you (as long as you can provide the right care).
- Don't cut corners.
- Be patient. Not only with your chameleon, but with other keepers as well.
If you want to follow along with Neptune's adventures he has his own Instagram: @Neptunethechameleon.
Attachments
CC's Baby
Avid Member
Thanks so much for sharing! I am very appreciative of you and others that I have been so overwhelmingly in aww of how friendly and willing everyone on this forum has been and yes,Matt Vanilla Gorilla has also been helping me and very helpful as well. I am already following your advice and going to make sure that all my habitat is runnin properly in the temp and hum levels BEFORE I every bring my little guy home. I just officially started with my first purchase today so I have a long way to go, but I will get there and I am confident , more so now than ever, that I will be successful after meeting all of YOU on this forum because it is HERE that I have learned so much and I am hungry hungry hungry for knowledge. Thank you so much. I will keep all of my steps posted and let you guys know when I get it all done and ready. Thank you again. TRULY GRATEFUL for each of you that have shared!That clip could have been better explained on the show. They caught a ton of backlash over it on fb and explained on fb what should have been discussed when that clip aired though I can't seem to find the post now. They said Dewey does have a full enclosure setup with mist king but was a little dehydrated. They stated that was a temp cage for the segment and that the "bubbler" was not going to be a permanent fixture of her cage, that they were only using it in the temp cage to help hydrate her.
I remember the thread where the reddit people came here to defend their shot glass watering
As someone that I still consider "some what new" to keeping chams considering I'm only 14/ 15 months into keeping them I whole heartedly agree on finding a great mentor. Mine has been @Matt Vanilla Gorilla and though as he noted to me the other day I've grown independent for the most part, I do still ask his thoughts on various things. As said by @DeremensisBlue , some things are better learned through the experiences over the years of keeping/ breeding and, in Matt's case, dealing with wild chams in your front yard as a kid too
Needless to say with who I bought my first from, I started with panthers though a baby veiled in my local reptile shop "jumpstarted" my wanting a chameleon again. I had originally looked at possibly getting a one in the late 90's but my parents stopped that thought quick and then again in 2003/ 04. I was dealing with some personal issues after the Army at that point though and decided it wasn't a good idea for the animals sake. In 2017 I thought about getting back into snake keeping so I took my wife into the shop to look around and see how she would handle it lol. We saw a veiled that we both liked after looking at the snakes so I told her I would look into it again but that I hadn't previously because I felt I would fail the little one with all the environmental requirements they have which is when I came here to start researching again. Now that I've shared more personal info then I care to have done publicly or that anyone here cares to have read...most of my cham journey has been shared here since then lol.
I have a few pieces of advice for those just starting or looking to start with chameleons beyond the finding a mentor.
First would be, research research research and when you think you've researched enough, research a little more. Keep researching even after you've started your collection be it one chameleon or a few.
My second would be listen to the longer time keepers when they say go slow with your collecting. Make sure your husbandry is on point before getting your second, third or however many you end up with. I know that one may come across as hypocritical coming from me of all people considering how rapidly my collection has grown in my time here but, If you have a good mentor, your husbandry is where it needs to be and you follow proper quarantine procedures I personally don't see the problem with it.
My third would be, get something like the acurite temp and humidity station (~$9) to track how your house "runs" while doing all of your research. Though I live in Fl, I can tell you the main part of my house stays between 45-50% rh during the day and nights typically average 60% rh with what I have and how my a/c runs. Both bedrooms stay fairly close to that as well but since most of my chams are in the bedrooms they are naturally higher. Before you get your cham build out your cage and track how it reacts with your house and vice versa to get you into the target range for your chams needs. This will give you the time needed to play with covering a side or two or three if needed before bringing the precious little being into your home. For me, in my situation, 3 sides works perfectly for my target with my water schedule.
My fourth, don't be afraid of using glass like the exo-terra or zoo-med cages. Something I have seen over and over, not just here, and am guilty of repeating myself when I was going specifically by the care guides is to staying with screen cages. @Goose502 is a well of knowledge with them that I don't think enough buckets have been dipped into tbh and is pretty active here. Though I doubt any other Floridians will admit to using them, I've been messing with an exo the last couple of months to track how they would react to my house like I did with the screen cages. In my situation, with the 18*18*36 test cage with my normal misting schedule, it does take an AC Infinity s3 muffin fan on top to stay at my target rh range during the day. Please don't take this as me saying run out and change cage styles though. My main cham room needs to go back to being mainly a bedroom due to my daughter moving in so I had to look at other options for elsewhere in my house
Last piece of advise, ask your mentor/ here questions, tons and ton of questions if you're not sure about something. Though a lot of my questions after the first month or so for Matt were about stuff I had read or my "hair brain" ideas, I'm happy I asked or discussed the subject. As they say, the only stupid question is the one you don't ask
CC's Baby
Avid Member
He is pretty -- That is the color that speaks to me. I am in love with the "blues" Hoping to get one like that but I am so excited. I am basically following that same path as you have and doing my research. The cham is the only thing that makes me melt and I am so intrigued by them.
