no1lizardguy
New Member
My female oustalets chameleon laid eggs a few days ago but still has been acting like she's not done and now she is trying to lay out this brown ooz stuff that is kinda clear?
Chameleon laying weird brown clear stuff?
- Thread starter no1lizardguy
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no1lizardguy
New Member
burnedrose
New Member
That looks like it could be a prolapse. I'm not 100% sure, as it doesn't have the dark color that I associate with most prolapses, but if it is, put a little bit of olive oil on it to keep it lubed and get her to the vet asap. I'd like to see what other people think, too, as I don't claim to be an expert in prolapses in chameleons (although I have seen my fair share in humans).
Keep that "pinkish" area moist with K-Y jelly until you can get her to a vet. It is definitely a prolapse and considered a medical emergency! It needs to be put back as soon as possible. I don't know if she might have more eggs inside that need to be laid or not...but an x-ray might show that too. Might be why the prolapse happened.
no1lizardguy
New Member
ah =/ i dont have the money for the vet =( i feel horriblefor her..... is there anything i can do myself to help?
Elizadolots
New Member
No, this is really a vet level emergency. You can negotiate a payment plan with the vet so you don't have to pay it all at once, but she needs the vet.
no1lizardguy
New Member
k guys thanks i really hope they will be able to help her.
Elizadolots
New Member
Please let us know how things go.
Okay, first, if it were a dog or a horse or a bird, I think that maybe you should think out the worst case scenerio for owning such a pet. There are many, many, many vets that know these animals inside and out, and can diagnose and treat them accordingly. There are very few vets that specialize in reptiles and are competent at it. Most experienced Herpers can diagnose and treat most of the common recurring ailments by themselves.
This is what I have done in the past for prolapses in Emerald tree boas and Chameleolis sp. I gently clean the area with distilled water, and then slather the prolapse with Preperation -H (now with Cotrtizon) or Anusol or any other ass cream.
I use my pinkie in the case of snakes to re-insert the prolapse into the cloaca. in the case of smaller animals, use a clean blunt object (I use snake probes).
I seriously doubt that all the people on all forums in all the world actually take their reptiles to a vet. I believe they just parrot what they have heard and believe it is the right answer.
Since you can't afford a vet, try the suggestion I have offered, it is always better to try something, than try nothing.
burnedrose
New Member
What Willardi said is generally the same deal with humans. In humans, you just slather the area with a lube, then a hemmaroid ointment and ease it back into the body, slowly, while the person is completely relaxed (usually a sedative works, although I have seen people just get really really drunk).
HOWEVER, in humans, if a woman prolapses her uterus, it is generally NOT recommended to try to restuff it. The main reason behind this is because the vaginal wall is muscle, as it is with many animals. Unless the animal (or human) is completely relaxed and at ease, the vaginal wall will constrict, preventing the uterus from being sucked back up as well as causing a possibility of blood flow constriction. Stuffing it back up by using a bit of force may cause a tear or damage to her uterus, which could cause her to become infertile at the least or cause internal bleeding at the worse.
Since she was just laying her eggs, I am going to bet that this is not an anal prolapse and it is a uterine prolapse. I would use caution in restuffing her.
I will reiterate that all my knowledge of prolapses comes from my job and refers to humans and I am not a medical professional at all.
In the end, it may be cheaper to try it yourself...but you may also lose her. Best advice is to go to a vet and hope that all works out well.
HOWEVER, in humans, if a woman prolapses her uterus, it is generally NOT recommended to try to restuff it. The main reason behind this is because the vaginal wall is muscle, as it is with many animals. Unless the animal (or human) is completely relaxed and at ease, the vaginal wall will constrict, preventing the uterus from being sucked back up as well as causing a possibility of blood flow constriction. Stuffing it back up by using a bit of force may cause a tear or damage to her uterus, which could cause her to become infertile at the least or cause internal bleeding at the worse.
Since she was just laying her eggs, I am going to bet that this is not an anal prolapse and it is a uterine prolapse. I would use caution in restuffing her.
I will reiterate that all my knowledge of prolapses comes from my job and refers to humans and I am not a medical professional at all.
In the end, it may be cheaper to try it yourself...but you may also lose her. Best advice is to go to a vet and hope that all works out well.
Elizadolots
New Member
ummm....no, I cannot support that advise. Go to a vet.
Prolapses are different for species, different for genders so such simplistic advice is really not good. My guess is that's a uterus prolapse which is a much more dramatic thing than even a hemi-penal prolapse....
Please do not try to fix this on your own. Keep it moist (as noted, use KY jelly, you can find it in the feminine hygiene aisle. KY jelly is water based which is important.)
Take her to a vet. That is not a toss away, disposable pet. Give her the respect she deserves.
Prolapses are different for species, different for genders so such simplistic advice is really not good. My guess is that's a uterus prolapse which is a much more dramatic thing than even a hemi-penal prolapse....
Please do not try to fix this on your own. Keep it moist (as noted, use KY jelly, you can find it in the feminine hygiene aisle. KY jelly is water based which is important.)
Take her to a vet. That is not a toss away, disposable pet. Give her the respect she deserves.
burnedrose
New Member
Olive oil is also an acceptable lube, as it does not harness the growth of any type of fungus or bacteria and does not wash off with mistings. Olive oil has been used in the past for lubrication in humans and animals, since it's natural and helps stave off fungus/bacteria growth.
I jsut want to mention this because if the Op is as strapped for cash as they say, buying a bottle of KY may not be the wisest choice when olive oil is readily available in most kitchens. Just make sure it's olive, and not peanut or cooking or any other oil, as most of those have additives. And double check your olive oil. Make sure they dont add any flavorings to the oil, like some fancy schmancy places tend to do.
Elizadolots
New Member
Okay, it wasn't the olive oil I was questioning.
that said, while my house has olive oil in stock, many don't. In that cause, olive oil can be quite pricey so KY jelly can be a less expensive option.
I don't know where you get the idea that olive oil is better than KY jelly, but I would be interested in your support for that position.
that said, while my house has olive oil in stock, many don't. In that cause, olive oil can be quite pricey so KY jelly can be a less expensive option.
I don't know where you get the idea that olive oil is better than KY jelly, but I would be interested in your support for that position.
Okay, lets pretend I am the origonal poster. I live In The Niagara Region, Southern Ontario. What vets do you recomend? Not only the one or ones you use, but any other you have heard good things about. PM me. I am just curious if you can back your advice.
Willardi...I'm sorry I can't recommend any vets in the Niagara Region since I don't live there.
I deal with the Ontario Veterinary Clinic at the University of Guelph mainly. I am also personal friends with several vets who deal with chameleons frequently and it is recommended that the chameleon be put under to re-insert the prolapse. Failure of a chameleon to react to a procedure does not mean it is not painful. Anesthesia is justified on simple humane grounds. I know this is recommended because of the pain re-inserting it can cause, but suspect that it also makes it easier since the chameleon's muscles won't fight against it when the chameleon is put out.
If swollen the prolapse is soaked in a sugar water (hyperosmotic solution like sucrose) first to decrease the swelling. After the prolapse is put back in the vet puts in a purse-string suture or horizontal mattress suture to keep it there but allowing enough space for the chameleon to defecate. The suture is removed a few days later.
Luckily I have not had very many prolapses occur with my own chameleons...but I know of other cases than my own and how they have been dealt with.
(BTW...I've been keeping chameleons for over 20 years.)
You can PM me about it if you want to.
I deal with the Ontario Veterinary Clinic at the University of Guelph mainly. I am also personal friends with several vets who deal with chameleons frequently and it is recommended that the chameleon be put under to re-insert the prolapse. Failure of a chameleon to react to a procedure does not mean it is not painful. Anesthesia is justified on simple humane grounds. I know this is recommended because of the pain re-inserting it can cause, but suspect that it also makes it easier since the chameleon's muscles won't fight against it when the chameleon is put out.
If swollen the prolapse is soaked in a sugar water (hyperosmotic solution like sucrose) first to decrease the swelling. After the prolapse is put back in the vet puts in a purse-string suture or horizontal mattress suture to keep it there but allowing enough space for the chameleon to defecate. The suture is removed a few days later.
Luckily I have not had very many prolapses occur with my own chameleons...but I know of other cases than my own and how they have been dealt with.
(BTW...I've been keeping chameleons for over 20 years.)
You can PM me about it if you want to.
burnedrose
New Member
I didn't mean to come across as rude, so I apologize if my response gave you that impression. I was just mentioing an alternative to KY Jelly, as that can just add to the bill. And I know very few houses that don't have olive oil, but I am also a first generation American and all my relatives are Italian, so it must be a crime or something if Italians don't have olive oil.
But I do have some evidence that olive oil is better.
I am in the adult entertainment business. I have seen roughly a dozen or so prolapses happen to women (although mostly anal) over my tenure in the business. Every single time, the EMTs that were called use olive oil VS the KY Jelly, which is, I assure you, readily available. As you know, certain membranes, when exposed to the air, dry out quickly. KY Jelly is meant to be used as an internal lube, not external. If you have ever had the unfortunate experience of working with old KY jelly, you realize that it dries out extremely fast when not put into a warm wet hole...and the tissue dries out even faster than the lube, as it is having the moisture essentially sucked out of itself in order to keep the lube wet. Now, that is just with a few older bottles of KY, so I can't base all of the lubes around a few bad experiences with a really cruddy production company that couldn't spring for the new stuff.
Now, I did research and found an abstract of a research paper that indicates that olive oil is the strongest antimicrobial/antifungal among all the things tested - stronger than alcohol. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17536679
In this article, the scientists used regular supermarket-style olive oil to prove the antimicrobial/antifungal properties and it seems to have great results.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf00054a040
based on this research, and from my own experience, I would go with olive oil 100% of the time. Not only will it lube up the area well, but it will help keep the area clean with it's antimicrobial properties, which is essential when dealing with a prolapse.
This is just awful, if you can't afford an animal vet visits DON'T get the animal. Yeah all is cool when the thing only cost 200 bucks but take into consideration that you do HAVE too spend money too maintain them. Get a grip and money and take that thing to the VET!!Thats just nasty. Why i wont have females right there!!
