Chameleon shipment in US

[Eszzie]

So 2 days ago someone on our Dutch forum posted a youtube of someone recieving a pardalis from screameleons.

The chameleon looked great and was carefully shipped in an isolated box.

So now a big discussion started of people calling it a shame.

I explained to them that they can't compare the US to The Netherlands because US is so much larger than our country.

If we want to buy an animal on the other side of the country we drive 2 hours and we're there, in USA this is sometime impossible and this is why there is shipment available in animals.

Now is there someone else who can add something so that I can explain to my Dutch fellow chameleon lovers that this kind of shipment is not as harmful to the animals as they think.

Just because we don't have a system like that in our country doesn't make it bad right?

I think some people should get some more information of how things work international before giving an opinion.

 

[Miss Machine]

Good of you to start this topic here. I'm also curious to find some other, valuable opinions on here, for the Dutch ;-).

 

[rcutchens]

I guess I don't understand - were the members concerned and upset with the way the chameleon was packaged and shipped, Eszzie?

If so, I don't know what to say other than I believe the shipping method that Screameleons uses is fairly common for shipping small, live reptiles of various sorts and has been proven to be safe and successful.

I'd also ask owners in the Netherlands to consider this question - are chameleons indigenous to the Netherlands?

That's a bit of tongue and cheek of course because everyone knows they are not! While the other members on the Dutch board may have received their chameleons from breeders in the Netherlands or other nearby countries the fact is, they were all shipped at one point or another. The point here is that in order for owners in the Netherlands to be able to keep chameleons they had to be shipped from countries they are indigenous at some point and, I'd imagine, are still imported by breeders as well. We'd all like to think that the animals that all animals that are shipped are kept in the most healthy and comfortable environment and that someone who really cares about there welfare is constantly monitoring their health and well being during the trip but I'm betting that's not likely the case too often with large shipments and imports.

From what I've read and hear I'm confident Screameleons has an impecable track record of being able to safely deliver healthy and happy chameleons to owners all over and I don't think they'd ever ship to someone if they suspected there was a great risk to the animal's health and well being. They have a terrific reputation and, more importantly, they do care about the welfare of the animals they sell.

 

[Texas Ranger]

Here is the US shipping reptiles happens every day. We have got it down to a science. IMO. The animal is always shipped over night with either a hot pack or a cool pack depending on the weather. The breeder takes the animal to the shipping place at the last possible second, before the dead line. Then the animal sleeps over night while he is being shipped. Then arrives at the new owners home by 10:00 am. So really if reptiles sleep 12 hours on their own. This just gives them a couple more hours of sleep time. And as far as I know Screameleons has had a 100% safe shipping history. I have 2 panthers from screameleons. They arrived right on time the next morning. The packaging was wonderful and the animal awoke from a refreashed sleep.

As long as the breeder/seller know what they are doing and has the right supplies for shipping. It is a wonderful way to get animals from all over. I have no problems with buying/shipping animals.

Hope this helps

 

[Eszzie]

I know screameleons has a very good reputation and I told the Dutch that they shouldn't worry and that they will do everything to maike the shipment as comfortable as possible.

The reason they act so aggresive is the fact of even thinking of sending a chameleon in a box somewhere. They don't seem to understand that we live in a tiny little country in which we can travel by car by ourselfs and that in most other countries shipping animals in boxes is very common.

I also told them that importing animals from Tanzania or Madagascar is being much worse because they are mostly all packed together and that way of shipment is more stressful. Mostly the importing of animals from Africa is all about money and not in the least about the welfare of the animals.

They don't take that into consideration.

Is it alright for me to copy and paste your responds on the Dutch forum?

@ Miss Machine, are you Wendy from the forum?

 

[Miss Machine]

@ Eszzie: Yep, i'm her

 

[rcutchens]

I know screameleons has a very good reputation and I told the Dutch that they shouldn't worry and that they will do everything to maike the shipment as comfortable as possible.

The reason they act so aggresive is the fact of even thinking of sending a chameleon in a box somewhere. They don't seem to understand that we live in a tiny little country in which we can travel by car by ourselfs and that in most other countries shipping animals in boxes is very common.

I also told them that importing animals from Tanzania or Madagascar is being much worse because they are mostly all packed together and that way of shipment is more stressful. Mostly the importing of animals from Africa is all about money and not in the least about the welfare of the animals.

They don't take that into consideration.

Is it alright for me to copy and paste your responds on the Dutch forum?

@ Miss Machine, are you Wendy from the forum?

Well, that's understandable but chances are if they don't understand it then little that I or others on here can say will change that.

I don't mind if you copy and post what I've posted but I don't want to start a fight with fellow chameleon owners on the other side of the Atlantic!

Plus, I'm not an expert when it comes to shipping reptiles either; I'm just a consumer and have never personally shipped one myself. However, I did a lot of research before I purchased our first chameleon and found that many, many suppliers of chameleons utilized similar shipping methods. (As were also used with other reptiles as well.)

I think the key is good, safe packaging with a good air supply, maintaining a good temperature and having them spend minimal time in the shipping container no matter what kind of animal it is.

 

[ToExXx]

Kinda off subject but I used to order my saltwater fish and corals online and they would ship from california to my house in wisconsin, Fedex was pretty good about it getting them here in about 22-24hours total ship time. Some of the species I had were flashlight fish, jellyfish, hard and soft corals. I ordered them this way because these were the best possible specimens that could be bought as far as health and that 90% were captive bred even before the laws were passed limiting wild sold livestock. Pet stores usually are deathtraps. Most pets stores Ive walked into take minimal care of the animals and feed them a minimum to barely keep them alive and the conditions are usually on the lower end of sanitary. I would have to imagine buying a reptile online and shipping it would almost be the best option for many people as long as they are buy from a reputable dealer and they pack and ship it right. As long as it is something like Fedex overnight its probly the least tramatizing method of purchase. Got to remeber it gets shipped either to a shabby pet store and then u pick it up after they neglect it or the animal can be directly shipped from the dealer to you bypassing the whole neglect part.

 

[rcutchens]

Kinda off subject but I used to order my saltwater fish and corals online and they would ship from california to my house in wisconsin, Fedex was pretty good about it getting them here in about 22-24hours total ship time. Some of the species I had were flashlight fish, jellyfish, hard and soft corals. I ordered them this way because these were the best possible specimens that could be bought as far as health and that 90% were captive bred even before the laws were passed limiting wild sold livestock. Pet stores usually are deathtraps. Most pets stores Ive walked into take minimal care of the animals and feed them a minimum to barely keep them alive and the conditions are usually on the lower end of sanitary. I would have to imagine buying a reptile online and shipping it would almost be the best option for many people as long as they are buy from a reputable dealer and they pack and ship it right. As long as it is something like Fedex overnight its probly the least tramatizing method of purchase. Got to remeber it gets shipped either to a shabby pet store and then u pick it up after they neglect it or the animal can be directly shipped from the dealer to you bypassing the whole neglect part.

Great points ToExXxX and I agree. The people that are shipping these animals are typically much more knowledgeable and have a lot more experience than most retail stores and chains are able to provide at minimum wage and they really do care about the welfare of the animals because they bred and raised them. They don't want to do anything that would intentionally be harmful to the animal and I do think they've taken the time to really think through the process and ensure that it is the absolute best possible method short of delivering the animal by hand.

 

[andy27012]

To the best of my knowledge there are no indigenous species of chameleons to Dutchland so I would point out that all the chameleons in the country were at one point or another shipped in box'es. You could take it a step further and ask them if this is something they really feel strongly about to abandon purchasing any further animals to prevent the demand and prevent importation of said animals.

 

[Cainschams]

Here is the US shipping reptiles happens every day. We have got it down to a science. IMO. The animal is always shipped over night with either a hot pack or a cool pack depending on the weather. The breeder takes the animal to the shipping place at the last possible second, before the dead line. Then the animal sleeps over night while he is being shipped. Then arrives at the new owners home by 10:00 am. So really if reptiles sleep 12 hours on their own. This just gives them a couple more hours of sleep time. And as far as I know Screameleons has had a 100% safe shipping history. I have 2 panthers from screameleons. They arrived right on time the next morning. The packaging was wonderful and the animal awoke from a refreashed sleep.

As long as the breeder/seller know what they are doing and has the right supplies for shipping. It is a wonderful way to get animals from all over. I have no problems with buying/shipping animals.

Hope this helps

Dont forget it is probably a hell of a ride getting tossed around by carriers!!!!

When properly packed there should be no problems with shipping a chameleon. They do not require a lot of oxygen. When a chameleon is in the dark for a short time they will go to sleep so once in the box and settled they are not scratching to get out......most of them. It isnt very stressful at all and safe as long as it is packed right.

If your fellow forum members want to know how I pack a chameleon let me know and I will break it down. I may have not shipped hundreds of chams but at least well over 50. I have never had a problem yet and I have shipped in weather ranging from 17 degrees F to 95 F.

 

[ToExXx]

One day and I hope Im wrong, most chameleons and basically all animals that are sensitive to habitat change will only exist in captivity, it was something we started to experience in the fish trade. Sort of a double edge sword when it comes to conservation. Promoting education is really key, like this forum!

 

[Miss Machine]

Thanks everyone so far, for your replies! Keep them comin', it's a hot topic at the moment.

 

[Eszzie]

To the best of my knowledge there are no indigenous species of chameleons to Dutchland so I would point out that all the chameleons in the country were at one point or another shipped in box'es. You could take it a step further and ask them if this is something they really feel strongly about to abandon purchasing any further animals to prevent the demand and prevent importation of said animals.

I was laughing my ass off, Dutchland. Haha. It's the Netherlands

And no there are no indigenous species here, but we do see a lot of illegally smuggled Chamaeleo Chamaeleon's out here. From Portugal and Marocco and stuff.

Thanks for all your replies, we've just linked this topic to ours, hopefully the people who are making a big fuss are going to follow this. Most of the things you guys said, we (Miss Machine and me) mentioned already, but ah well we're no experts on sending chameleons in boxes either so maybe they buy stuff from people who actually have experience with it. Thanks

 

[Eszzie]

Luckily some people on our forum read this topic and we've made our point clear. Thanks for all your responds on this topic and giving us some more international knowledge

 

[eisentrauti]

Even in huge Germany it's the normalst thing in the world to send them