Chameleon sick or wanting to lay eggs?

[Fern]

Hi, I'm hoping someone on here can help I'm running out of ideas.
I'll try to include as much detail as I can so this could be a lengthy post!

I have a female veiled chameleon about 11 months old. She is housed in a medium tall exo terra viv with polystyrene background on the back & on one side. The remailing side has artificial plant stuck on & cork board on the outside of the glass.
She has a clamp lamp for heat lamp with 75w spot bulb. Temperature at the hot end ranges between 90-110 depending how close the lamp is. She has a uv tube repti glo 5.0 14w. She also has orchid bark substrate, artificial plants, branches & a jungle vine.

She has a water dish in her viv & is sprayed 2-3 times a day. She has a food dish & has a diet of crickets, mealworms, waxworms & romaine lettuce.

That's her background, now on to the problem.

For the last week and a half - 2 weeks she hasn't been herself. She spends nearly all of her time on the floor & has stopped eating. She is also more aggressive when I go into her viv.

I saw her digging in the corner once & so put in a tub in case she was looking for a nesting site. It's 6" deep & 8" diameter which I've been told should be fine. It's filled with a forest bed/playsand mix. She will sit in the tub but does not dig & then after a day or night sitting in the tub she goes back on the floor.
I have asked for & received advice from the place I got her & from another reptile centre. They have offered lots of help but nothing has worked. I also covered the front of her viv with a blanket so she wouldn't be disturbed & removed all the crickets so they wouldn't bother her.

Yesterday she was still the same so i took her to a vet. We don't have any local reptile specialists & most vets don't want to see her. I found one who has dealt with lizards & reptiles before & took her there. He looked at her & felt her & said he couldn't see or feel any abnormalities although she was "slightly portly in the abdomen area". He said her skin & eyes were fine & listened to her breathing which was also fine. She climbed up his arm & he said her movement was fine & that she was alert & changed colour. He looked in her mouth which he said was also fine.

He said she was in very good condition & could see nothing wrong. The only suggestions he had were to clean her vent area with cotton wool & warm water in case she is constipated & to give her sugar water to keep her energy up & maybe act as a laxative.

If I place her on a branch she stays there for quite a few hours before returning to the floor. She seems to be having a little more trouble than usual climbing between the branches. Also if I put worms in her mouth she will chew & swallow them but does not take them herself or get them with her tongue.

She is a green colour with orange & blue markings. Her eyes are not sunken & she is awake all day.
I don't know what else to do, she's really worrying me.

She just sits on the floor & doesn't feed.

Please help, any advice would be appreciated. I really don't know what to do.

 

[kinyonga]

What specific supplements have you been using and how often for each?

Can you post a photo of her please?

 

[Elizadolots]

Can you rig it so she can't see you? Sometimes people will wrap newspaper around the enclosure and poke a few peep holes in. Others have wrapped the enclosure completely and set up webcams. If she needs to lay, she needs privacy.

 

[BocaJan]

Be sure that the dirt or sand is wet enough so as she tunnels the tunnel won't collapse. My females like their dirt fairly wet and will not lay in dirt that is too dry. They don't just scoop out an indentation and lay but they dig an actual tunnel down to the bottom of your container so it needs to be at least 10" deep and fairly damp all the way to the bottom. Try taking your container out, dump out the dirt, add more water to the dirt and stir it up with your hands so you can actually feel how wet it is, and then place it back into your container. Cover her cage and wait. They usually like to start first thing in the morning, but then again they are fussy and will choose themselves when to start. I make sure my container has foliage around it, not in it, just so it has the feeling of the floor of the forest.

Works for my ladies.

 

[jannb]

Welcome to the forums. I think she needs a bigger laying bin and the sand may be too wet or it could be too dry. I also think the basking temps are way too hot. Below is a link to my blog for how I keep females. As Kinyonga said above a photo would be very helpful.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html

 

[Fern]

Thanks for the replies.

So does everyone have the opinion that she does want to lay eggs & not that she's ill?

I was following advice from 2 reptile stores when I set up the nesting site. The problem I have with putting in a bigger tub is: 1. I don't have anything bigger & 2. I'm not sure I can fit it in her viv.

As for the heat lamp, again I was told her temps were fine. I have clamped the lamp so that it's further away from the top of her viv & basking spot is 90 degrees F. She feels very cold to the touch when she is down the bottom is this right?

I had been covering the front of her viv over with a blanket for several days & the back & sides are already blocked as the side & back has polystyrene background & the other side has a cork board. I was only removing blanket to mist the viv once a day.

Thanks again, all help is appreciated.

(This is Fern just before her new behaviours started. Although she has puffed herself up as she didn't like the camera!)

(This is Fern after she began to stop eating.)

(This is Fern's viv before the tub was added)

I hope the photos have worked!

 

[Fern]

Sorry, almost forgot - I usually suppliment her insects with exo terra multi vitamin.

Thanks

(This is Fern yesterday)

Today she is sat in the top of the tub. If you think I should change the tub can I do that while she's sitting in it as she's been there since yesterday afternoon & hasn't moved? I would have to try & find something bigger & try & fit it in her viv. Would also need to go out & buy some more soil as I've run out now.

Thanks again

 

[Fern]

Problems drinking? Egg laying site

Really in need of some help here!!

I've spent all day trying to do what you've all advised me & what the vet said.

I've found a bucket & bought some more eco earth. I've put loads of damp eco earth & playsand in. I've managed to get it in the viv by rearranging stuff.

I've cleaned her vent area with warm water & also bought some liquid calcium.
I gave her some liquid calcium diluted in water as the leaflet said. I used a pippette & put droplets on her mouth which she drank. I also gave her a little of the sugar water the same way.
She then began puffing up the gular area & opening her mouth. It looked like she had bubbles in there. She did this for about 5 minutes & closed her eyes.

I got really worried about her & kept her in my hand until she seemed to return to normal.

Am I doing the right things? Is it normal for her to do that after drinking droplets from a pippette?


Please help

 

[jannb]

From the photos I'd say she looks like she may very well have eggs but only an X-ray will tell for sure. If you'll take the time to read my blog it has some very good ideas for egg laying and the laying bin. Be sure to read the the Rasing Kitty link for how to keep females.....it's very importortant if you want to keep your little one healthy.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html

There's a few things you need to change in your set up. See my general care blog:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html

 

[Fern]

Hi, thanks. I read thelink you posted before about egg laying sites which is why I have now put in a bigger tub (a bucket) & added more soil/sand. I also dug a test tunnel as you said & left it in case she wants to use it.

I have rearranged the viv to get the bcket in & have made sure there is an over hanging artificial plant to aid her if she wants to get out of the bucket. There are artificial plants arond the bucket bt nothing inside. There is also a branch & vine near the bucket.

Her current temps are 90 degrees f at hot end & 80 cool end. Are these still too hot then?

What exact changes do yo think I need to make with the set up? I have read your link & cold see yo might be thinking temps. I don't have live plants in there but have been told these aren't easy to keep. I live in England & have been told that she would need a basking lamp as temps don't get very high without.

At the moment I jst want to get her back to normal & then can consider anything else I may need to do.

I have now got her liquid calcium as well.

I know an xray is the best way to tell for sure if she has eggs but I haven't been able to find a reptile vet anywhere. I've taken her to one vet who does deal with reptiles but isn't an "expert". He said she seemed in very good condition & healthy but wasn't certain if she may be carrying eggs. He did say she didn't have respiratory or bone problems.

I placed her in the bucket tonight when I'd finished sorting it & now I've turned her lights off for the night I had a peek & she gone to sleep in the tunnel I dug. Is this a sign?
I know I'm not meant to disturb her so what should I do about misting & giving her liquid calcium & sugar water?
Thanks

 

[jannb]

I wouldn't mess with her right now. They normally start digging in the late afternoon or evening and sometime don't lay until the next morning. If you'll read the Raising Kitty link for females in my blog it will tell you about the lights and temps that you need. The lady that wrote the Raising Kitty female link has been keeping veileds for more than 20 years and an expert. She also lives in Canada where it can be quite cold. Also I would get rid of the wood chips in the bottom of the enclosure so she want eat them and become impacted. It's best to keep the floor bare. You can also keep it cleaner that way.

 

[Fern]

Thanks. I didn't get the bucket into the viv until quite late in the evening as had spent all afternoon going out to get more soil & calcium (nearest reptile supplies are half hour journey away) & setting it all up.
I put her in the bucket at around 9pm & covered the viv over with a blanket.
I turned her lights off for the night around 10:30pm & when I peeked in at 11pm she had moved from the side of the bucket into the tunnel that I had dug facing upwards & had gone to sleep.

I'll leave her tomorrow & see if she does anything. Should I not mist in there or anything at all tomorrow?


As soon as I can get her back to normal I'll look into sorting anything else that needs changing.

Is she meant to feel cold to the touch? Since I reduced the basking spot to 90 degrees F she has felt cold.

Thanks for the help

 

[jannb]

Mine feel cool except for when they are under the lights or out in the sun. I hoping the very best for her.

 

[Fern]

Thank you. I haven't disturbed her today but she's still just sitting in the hole as she was last night.
If she doesn't do anything this time I don't know what I'll do. Another vet could be pricey & hard to find & could just tell me there's nothing wrong with her again.
Now 2 weeks without eating apart from the few worms I have put in her mouth & not passed anything for 2 weeks.

 

[camimom]

When my female laid, it took her 3 full days to finish.
she dug a hole, turned around, with her butt down in the hole, and didnt do anything.
the next day, she dug another hole, deeper, turned around, and butt in the hole. she slept in the hole all night long.

then sometime during the 3rd day, she laid her eggs, covered the hole, and walked away.

it can take them some time to decide on what hole they like, how deep, etc.

 

[BocaJan]

Just leave her be. You can't keep disturbing her or she won't lay. I know it's hard. Don't worry about feeding or watering. She needs to lay and that's at the top of her list. When she is done you can feed her a little extra for a couple days and give her all the water she wants.

 

[Fern]

Thanks.
It's been 2 weeks now & she hasn't done anything. Although the new bucket has only been in there since last evening.
She doesn't dig. If I have dug a hole in the soil she will sit in that hole but doesn't dig anything herself. Then after a while she just gets out & sits on the floor.
This was before the bigger bucket was put in. She has been sat in the hole since last night.
I will do as you say & not feed, give liquid calcium or mist. She has a blanket over the front of her viv so she can't see me & I'll leave her to it.
Should I check on her tomorrow or leave her still?

 

[Elizadolots]

Make sure you follow your normal routine with the lights...she needs that "night vs. day" awareness.

 

[Fern]

Thanks, yeah I turned her heat & uv off last night & back on again when I got up this morning. I'll do the same tonight & tomorrow morning. Then I'm at work all day tomorrow.
Haven't been near viv today to feed, mist etc.
I just worry how long this can go on with no eating, drinking & no passing faeces. And also I worry about egg binding.

She's been 2 weeks without passing anything & sitting on the floor. She ate 4 waxworms last wednesday taking them with her tongue from my hand & she ate 2 waxworms, 1 mealworm & 1 cricket Friday which I put in her mouth.

 

[Elizadolots]

Any report?