Chameleon with no eyes...

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Decadancin said:
So what dollar amount do you attach to the life of a chameleon so that we can offer the best advice to those who need it? Also what dollar amount for what age? I have already stated my opinion on what I felt is best, but that is not what the OP is deciding to do. Now I hope they are up to the challenge. No one here told anyone to take out a loan, and I understand what you are saying, but I now have to argue the point. @jajeanpierre, you do not have all the right answers to all the questions. You may cringe all you want when you are thinking about how much or how little money is spent on other peoples animals, but it truly isn't a perfect science. I risked a lot of money to save a 6 month old cat in congestive heart failure who ultimately had a limb amputated and will be on meds for the rest of his life. He has just passed his 9th birthday and is expected to live many more with a fantastic quality of life. I spent a sick amount of money to try to help him, and sacrificed many things for him. At the time he was only with us a few weeks, but we took on a responsibility when we adopted him and that was the decision we made. What amount of money would be the limit where we decide not to try to save his life? If you ask most of the people that knew about it at the time, most would not have done it. As for the animal's comfort, when this was happening, I witnessed pain in that cat's eyes that I hope none of you ever have to see. I knew that he was suffering but I also believed that he could make it if we did what the doctors suggested. His story is called (by the doctors and staff) a little miracle. They had never seen a cat that young survive what he had been through and now have more experience with medications for animals that may have similar issues. No, I would not have risked loosing my house over a pet, but I did go without many luxuries for a few years. I don't accept someone using money as an excuse to not get treatment or do what is right for the animal. Most do this without even asking a vet about options or payment plans.
Many on the forums believe that you should not have animals if you cannot afford to take care of them. Do not confuse this with the way you are twisting it. No one that I know of thinks that money is no object, its about responsibility. What would you have told me if I told you my 6 month old cat threw a blood clot and had an enlarged heart and almost no pulse in either of his back legs? Without knowing the outcome? Just curious...
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U got lots heart,n I agree with the responsibility on all our petcare,why bother to have pets if we can not taking care of them!!
 
jajeanpierre said:
Apology accepted.

I was like you at 13, wanting to save everything. As I've grown older I've learned that decisions on whether to go to heroic lengths to keep something alive are not a decision made in isolation. While we often can do something, we need to always question whether we should do it. We need to weigh not just the animals' comfort and quality of life but also the needs of the family that owns it. I cringe, absolutely cringe when people here talk about taking a loan to try to save a chameleon. I do not believe a pet should put their owner in the poor house. Many on this forum feel that nothing should be spared to keep a chameleon alive. I don't agree with that point of view.
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If you have taken on an animal as your pet and your responsibility, I think you are obligated to do whatever you can to save it's life (given that the quality of life is projected to be good). I think there's something really wrong with a pet owner who can do something to save a pet's life, but won't. I feel like anyone who makes the decision to buy and care for an exotic animal had better know that there are very often vet bills that come with that.

And ironically, I cringe at your cringing at other people doing whatever they need to to save their chameleon. I dropped a grand on my baby girl last week on egg removal surgery because she would have died otherwise. It's a lot of freakin' money. Money I don't have. I had to put it on a credit card. But guess what?! I BOUGHT A CHAMELEON. When I purchased her last year, I made the promise right then and there that I would care for her as absolute best I can. Of COURSE I understand, sometimes you don't have the money and you just can't, but I certainly look down on the person who could do something, but didn't.

But regardless, no one cares if you "cringe" at other people taking loans out to save their babies. You're certainly never the bad guy for trying to save an animal's life.

My animals mean absolutely everything to me, and there isn't anything I wouldn't do for them. I'm SO GLAD there are other people out there who feel the same - and if you don't, you should maybe remember that you're in a forum run by animal lovers meant for discussing the well-being of an exotic animal...
 
charlotteclaraschameleon said:
If you have taken on an animal as your pet and your responsibility, I think you are obligated to do whatever you can to save it's life (given that the quality of life is projected to be good). I think there's something really wrong with a pet owner who can do something to save a pet's life, but won't. I feel like anyone who makes the decision to buy and care for an exotic animal had better know that there are very often vet bills that come with that.

And ironically, I cringe at your cringing at other people doing whatever they need to to save their chameleon. I dropped a grand on my baby girl last week on egg removal surgery because she would have died otherwise. It's a lot of freakin' money. Money I don't have. I had to put it on a credit card. But guess what?! I BOUGHT A CHAMELEON. When I purchased her last year, I made the promise right then and there that I would care for her as absolute best I can. Of COURSE I understand, sometimes you don't have the money and you just can't, but I certainly look down on the person who could do something, but didn't.

But regardless, no one cares if you "cringe" at other people taking loans out to save their babies. You're certainly never the bad guy for trying to save an animal's life.

My animals mean absolutely everything to me, and there isn't anything I wouldn't do for them. I'm SO GLAD there are other people out there who feel the same - and if you don't, you should maybe remember that you're in a forum run by animal lovers meant for discussing the well-being of an exotic animal...
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I totally agree with you on this!
 
charlotteclaraschameleon said:
If you have taken on an animal as your pet and your responsibility, I think you are obligated to do whatever you can to save it's life (given that the quality of life is projected to be good). I think there's something really wrong with a pet owner who can do something to save a pet's life, but won't. I feel like anyone who makes the decision to buy and care for an exotic animal had better know that there are very often vet bills that come with that.

And ironically, I cringe at your cringing at other people doing whatever they need to to save their chameleon. I dropped a grand on my baby girl last week on egg removal surgery because she would have died otherwise. It's a lot of freakin' money. Money I don't have. I had to put it on a credit card. But guess what?! I BOUGHT A CHAMELEON. When I purchased her last year, I made the promise right then and there that I would care for her as absolute best I can. Of COURSE I understand, sometimes you don't have the money and you just can't, but I certainly look down on the person who could do something, but didn't.

But regardless, no one cares if you "cringe" at other people taking loans out to save their babies. You're certainly never the bad guy for trying to save an animal's life.

My animals mean absolutely everything to me, and there isn't anything I wouldn't do for them. I'm SO GLAD there are other people out there who feel the same - and if you don't, you should maybe remember that you're in a forum run by animal lovers meant for discussing the well-being of an exotic animal...
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I'm going to address this one last time because I think it important for both sides of the argument to be heard and I seem to have failed to get my message across.

Either I am not choosing the best words to explain my point of view or some on this forum are not understanding what I am trying to say.

At issue is what is reasonable or expected health care, money spent and effort expended to keep a chameleon.

You have chosen to spent $1000 for risky surgery on a chameleon. That's your choice. You can do whatever you want with your money. However, I am questioning your statement that there is something wrong with a person who chooses not to spent $1000 on surgery.

You wrote: I think there is something wrong with a pet owner who can do something to save a pet's life, but WON'T.

Let's examine that statement.

Are you suggesting there is something morally or ethically bankrupt in a person's character because they don't go into debt to try to save their chameleon?

At what point do you draw the line? You have taken a very high-interest loan out to pay for surgery that has a high mortality rate associated with it. It is your decision to make those financial decisions for your family. Another person faced with the same dilemma might decide not to put their family's financial security at risk and euthanize. Most people can come up with $1000 even if they have to go to the corner loan shark, so by your standards, everyone can try to save a pet's life but sometimes they choose not to.

Let's be clear, your message is that you believe there is something wrong with the character of any person who chooses to not go into debt for their chameleon. That's actually what you are saying. So now, someone faced with risking their family's financial stability over the decision to perform risky surgery on their pet and who chooses to euthanize is now a bad person in your eyes. How do you think that person feels as they wrestle with their heart breaking decision and hear your message?

There is nothing wrong with a person choosing to go into debt or spending a large sum of money to save their pet but there is also nothing wrong with choosing not to. I think every chameleon deserves a veterinarian's diagnosis and reasonable treatment. I think they deserve a humane death when the time comes. There is nothing immoral about deciding palliative care is all you will give as long as the animal is not suffering. It is a decision each of us make based on many factors and there is no one right answer.

Of course, quality of life matters and I am in no way suggesting that it is ever acceptable to allow an animal to suffer with no hope of a normal life. It is never acceptable to choose not to spend the money but to allow the animal to languish and die a slow and painful death. I am a strong advocate for using the services of a veterinarian, and believe me my vet bills are a lot higher than yours.

There is no right or wrong answer as each family situation is different. Please understand that not everyone is prepared to spend $1000 on surgery for their chameleon and to choose not to does not make them unworthy human beings. I think it unfair to demonize people who would have chosen to euthanize if they were faced with the situation you faced.
 
You might be better off thinking about it in terms of pros and cons for both you and the cham; this is what I think but since it's yours I really can't tell you what to do...

Pros of keeping it-
YOU: now own a pet with a unique physical anomaly
CHAM: survives (maybe)

Cons of keeping it-
YOU: now have to care for and pay for medical care of a severely disabled and otherwise helpless animal
CHAM: it will likely suffer if kept alive, even with the best intentions and care from you

Pros of humane euthanasia-
YOU: knowing you helped eliminate the animals suffering
CHAM: ends suffering in a quick and painless way

Cons of euthanasia-
YOU: might feel guilty for ending its life
CHAM: may have lived a bit longer

EDIT: please also consider that this isn't a puppy being born blind, it's a reptile that relies on an acute sense of sight in order to eat, drink, and balance. I know it's hard but please do the right thing and be proactive.
 
Its a nice day!!!Everyone just enjoy my pic....Currently Im trying to train my pigglet to drink from my big bad wolf finger water drop.....
The OP is happy to keep his baby alive ,and so does alphakenc :D
20160727_100908-1.jpg
 
sgiac801 said:
EDIT: please also consider that this isn't a puppy being born blind, it's a reptile that relies on an acute sense of sight in order to eat, drink, and balance. I know it's hard but please do the right thing and be proactive.
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This.
OP, it is somewhat commendable to care for this disabled chameleon. At this point though, it seems like a very inhumane experiment. It's interesting that the animal is being kept alive solely by you, but it seems excessive. The kid doesn't understand where it is or what life is beyond its instincts.
I wouldn't get too attached to it either. You never know how much stress it's under and how quickly it can decline.
Good luck to both of you. May the outcome be the best for the chameleon.
 
Folks, I suggest we let this die or take it to private conversations. I very much doubt anyone is going to change anyone else's view on a heartwrenching topic like this. Its not a competition (who spends what on vet care) and there is no single right answer. There is no winner or loser in this thread unless someone chooses to cling to some odd sort of electronic prize. The discussion was probably helpful but now its looping back on itself over and over. Let's agree that it is a heart and mind decision, but exactly where on the spectrum each individual pet owner sits is going to vary. I feel the take home message really is to sit down and think through what might or might not be best for a sick creature, educate yourself about the options and the outcomes, and be honest with yourself before taking such an important step. Most people's conscience will step in and there isn't anything anyone else can do about that. Also consider that a pet owner could choose to spend a lot on a pet in one situation and choose not to in the next situation. Case in point...I had an Australian cattledog who was so tough and stoic that she got into some very very expensive scrapes. I think I spent $10,000 on her one year. I was lucky to have the $ so that part of the decision wasn't hard. However, a couple of years later she came down with another serious health problem that would also be expensive, but based on the risk due to age, her prognosis, her misery, and how much fear and suffering she would have faced I did not make the same decision. Sure it was hard and I miss her still, but to this day I felt it was the right one for her.
 
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