chicken or fish !!!!!

[Elizadolots]

check it out..Dont worry, not my video. Just something i found a long time ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrcAJzJzRGY

It would have been more spectacular if the fish had been in a pond or bowl...but still...interesting.

 

[Leslie]

are the pinkies alive when you feed them?

 

[withlime]

I think the safer bet is to not regurgitate what you hear/read on the forums but to link to it instead. Unless you are very confident in what you know, no mater how you learned it, point people to the information and let them decide for themselves.

The vet example is a bad one because vets refer, research, and read material that is a bit more scholarly than the internet forums where a lot of the information is just regurgitated stuff.

Yes! The problem with regurgitating info you read on here is that you have no idea how many times this info has been repeated without other experience. If I came in here one day posting about how much my chams love goldfish and then other people read it and tell more people that chams love goldfish, we might end up with a forum full of people with dead chams. Always question your source and try to limit your posting to what you only have actual knowledge about or experience with.

 

[justjumpit621]

Yes! The problem with regurgitating info you read on here is that you have no idea how many times this info has been repeated without other experience. If I came in here one day posting about how much my chams love goldfish and then other people read it and tell more people that chams love goldfish, we might end up with a forum full of people with dead chams. Always question your source and try to limit your posting to what you only have actual knowledge about or experience with.

I only regard what experience keepers have said. I also talk to experienced reptile keepers and veterinarians in my area, not just on here. So IMHO a pinkie once every one to two months is okay. They asked for opinions, so there is mine.

 

[Chris Anderson]

I only regard what experience keepers have said. I also talk to experienced reptile keepers and veterinarians in my area, not just on here. So IMHO a pinkie once every one to two months is okay. They asked for opinions, so there is mine.

Yes, and other very experienced keepers are noting that your opinion, which is based on a single feeding in a single chameleon with a long history of health issues and unnamed "experts", should probably be taken as a grain of salt.

Chris

 

[justjumpit621]

Yes, and other very experienced keepers are noting that your opinion, which is based on a single feeding in a single chameleon with a long history of health issues and unnamed "experts", should probably be taken as a grain of salt.

Chris

Then the original poster can ignore my opinion. But as you should know, a pinkies bones are barely developed so basically they are just fatty treats. That is all I suggested them as, treats.

 

[Chris Anderson]

Then the original poster can ignore my opinion. But as you should know, a pinkies bones are barely developed so basically they are just fatty treats. That is all I suggested them as, treats.

I don't even know where to start anymore, your posts just seem to make less and less sense every time...

Who said anything about the bones and when did I say anything to indicate that the bones in the pinky was a problem? No one has said a single thing about the bones in this entire thread so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Chris

 

[Elizadolots]

THIS is a link to a post by a moderator on this board, from this forum made in January of this year:

In it, he/she says:

If any, I would say that pinkies are excellent source of Retinol. (not for fat or calcium)...and to say, pinky is just a glob of fat is a bit overstatement, imho.

Is it necessary to feed your cham pinky once a month? probably, not... and, it is also in my opinion that the feeding frequency might be too much for a chameleon.

Do realize: feeding it too often can raise a lot of health problem knowing how much protein and Retinol your chameleon take from that feeder.
I do not see problems feeding it once in every blue moon.

Then again... your chameleon will be completely fine, even if he never eat a pinky in his life, provided that you take care of him well.

I'm not advocating any position on this..my chameleons are tiny and would almost certainly hide on the other side of their cages if such a thing were presented, but it's obvious that contradictory information has been presented by people in "authority" positions on this issue....

It seems....I don't know....odd?... for a poster to be condemned for taking the same position a moderator has taken recently.

 

[withlime]

THIS is a link to a post by a moderator on this board, from this forum made in January of this year:

In it, he/she says:



I'm not advocating any position on this..my chameleons are tiny and would almost certainly hide on the other side of their cages if such a thing were presented, but it's obvious that contradictory information has been presented by people in "authority" positions on this issue....

It seems....I don't know....odd?... for a poster to be condemned for taking the same position a moderator has taken recently.

"Once every blue moon" is very different than once a month. So, if anything, this quote supports Chris Anderson's argument.

 

[kinyonga]

The only time I ever fed a pinky to a chameleon (Parson's) was about 20 years ago. My vet and I decided to try it because the Parson's was being hand fed (long story...nannizziopsis vreisii...damaged knee...broken tail as a result...etc.) for a time and it took "forever" to get enough insects in it to build it back up. Neither of us had had much experience with chameleons then. We gave it one every 5 or 6 days with insects in between. It threw them all up one day...none of them showed any signs of being digested...but the insects were. I never fed a chameleon a pinky again....and I likely never will.

 

[Paul R]

In my opinion it cant do any harm

Just a tip, if the chicken or fish is slightly off it might cause problems, cause in humans off chicken or fish is a nightmare!!!

 

[summoner12]

The only time I ever fed a pinky to a chameleon (Parson's) was about 20 years ago. My vet and I decided to try it because the Parson's was being hand fed (long story...nannizziopsis vreisii...damaged knee...broken tail as a result...etc.) for a time and it took "forever" to get enough insects in it to build it back up. Neither of us had had much experience with chameleons then. We gave it one every 5 or 6 days with insects in between. It threw them all up one day...none of them showed any signs of being digested...but the insects were. I never fed a chameleon a pinky again....and I likely never will.

I am not doubting you in any way...... but what you explained does play into what Chris said....

It seems that a lot of the problem comes if you start feeding them to animals that are otherwise unhealthy. For animals that are healthy, I don't think it is bad in moderation but I wouldn't recommend it regularly. Chameleons will eat vertebrates in the wild if they can find them but generally they are healthy animals that have a very balanced diet. In captivity we tend to have fat animals that have had histories of hydration issues (thus kidney damage) and then we start giving them large amounts of vertebrate prey items and it can exacerbate other problems.

Chris

I imagine the cham wasn't able to digest the item properly due to it's health. Maybe if the animal were without health issues you'd have not seen such a rejection.

 

[kinyonga]

You said.."what you explained does play into what Chris said"...what part of what Chris said are you meaning?

 

[summoner12]

Your animal wasn't healthy? or did I misunderstand?

 

[kinyonga]

He had a fungal infection...it caused the knee to be stiff due to the scabbing on the knee which caused it to "limp"...the limping caused it to fall off the branch and get its tail caught on the way down breaking the tail. Because it couldn't hold on with its broken tail, when it tried to shoot its tongue out the force of the tongue firing caused it to miss...so we felt that hand feeding it so it didn't have to shoot its tongue out would stop it from losing weight because it couldn't eat properly on its own.

 

[summoner12]

I was just saying that you had a bad experience because the animal wasn't in good health due to injuries. Which is what Chris A. was saying.

There wasn't much point to my comment other than to connect the dots. There was a small underlying notion that 'maybe there wouldn't have been an issue if the animal weren't having health issues'.

 

[kinyonga]

He wasn't sick internally...it was just physical. I would have thought about it being possible that he couldn't digest them because of the stress....but he was on insects until we started adding in pinkies and he digested them well.

 

[summoner12]

I was thinking more along the lines of the stress not allowing the digestion..... Maybe it was a thermal issue? Was he able to bask on his own? I am not trying to dissect the issue, but I thought there might be a connection, and that is the only point of my original comment. I know a local keeper who feeds baby birds to his parsons with (as far as I know) no issue.... maybe a bird goes down easier than a pinky? Maybe it was the stress? Just making connections.

 

[kinyonga]

I understand where you are coming from. Its hard to know for sure what the real reason for it was. He could hold onto the branches to bask...the difficulty was when the tongue was shooting out in conjunction with the stiff knee...and then of course, after he fell, his tail.

I wondered if it was an enzyme problem...I think that there are different enzymes for each type of food that has to be digested. I'd have to check to see if the enzymes for bird are different than for pinkies to be sure though.

 

[Chris Anderson]

THIS is a link to a post by a moderator on this board, from this forum made in January of this year:

In it, he/she says:



I'm not advocating any position on this..my chameleons are tiny and would almost certainly hide on the other side of their cages if such a thing were presented, but it's obvious that contradictory information has been presented by people in "authority" positions on this issue....

It seems....I don't know....odd?... for a poster to be condemned for taking the same position a moderator has taken recently.

Yeah, that post supports exactly what I'm saying. The poster isn't being condemned for recommending feeding pinkies once in a blue moon, the issue was her persistence in pushing their feeding without any information as to the possible dangers associated with it. Only giving a little piece of the story can sometimes be more dangerous than not saying anything at all and that is where experience (which the poster in question lacks) is invaluable.

Chris