Chuck (a young veiled) is not doing so well...

C

CarFax

New Member
We've had him since Dec. 17, when he was supposed to be about 6-8 weeks old. Got him from FL Chams, he's a "premium" veiled Chameleon. He has never eaten in our presence, but I have seen him drink water off his leaves (pathos). We count the crickets going in and going out, but not every single day, since taking him outside of his temporary setup and cleaning out his enclosure stresses him out to the point where he turns turd brown. He eats maybe 3-5 on average a day? We offer 8 or more "medium" crickets (dusted) at 8am everyday.

Today I saw him not basking, but sitting under the basking leaf, taking a nap... which I've heard is not a good thing. He is skinny, has not grown much, and is not at all interested in the mini mealworms we have tried to hand-feed him (I put 2 in a shot glass in his enclosure in case that is more enticing.)
Any tips/recommendations? If you need to see setup and such, I can post links from previous threads I've posted here on r/chameleons

His coloration in this photo is dark because, again, he hates to be removed from his enclosure, he's usually a green color when in his leaves and to himself. (http://i.imgur.com/cjIQHKS.jpg)

This was him when we first got him (http://i.imgur.com/ZbX3f5f.jpg)

Here's a picture of his setup (http://i.imgur.com/8GMJk55.jpg)

If you have any questions about environment, food, water, etc. please let me know, I want him to get fatter and to grow :(
 
Hi there welcome to the forum. You have a tiny boy there. In UK I would be giving him small crickets not medium. I know sizing can be different. No bigger than the area between the eyes. I would try putting his food in a larger container than a shot glass. I would also try free ranging a few crickets they can annoy your boy but it is when the crickets get larger they can bite. He may take small silkworms. Can you post a better pic of your set up please?:)
 
Kate said:
Hi there welcome to the forum. You have a tiny boy there. In UK I would be giving him small crickets not medium. I know sizing can be different. No bigger than the area between the eyes. I would try putting his food in a larger container than a shot glass. I would also try free ranging a few crickets they can annoy your boy but it is when the crickets get larger they can bite. He may take small silkworms. Can you post a better pic of your set up please?:)
Click to expand...

His crickets are always free range. These "medium" crickets are what I would consider small, but sending my SO out for some small (tiny) crickets here in a few minutes.

What else of the setup do you want to see? I made sure to get the lights in the shot and his plant.
 
jannb said:
Welcome to the forums. Poor little guy doesn't look good. He has to have a UVB light and the correct supplements. The crickets may be to large or his temps not correct. This is how I raise young veileds successfully. I would get him a cage and get everything corrected ASAP.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...ng-veiled-panther-chameleons.html#comment1721
Click to expand...

He has a 5.0 UVB bulb of course and separate basking bulb-- basking temp is anywhere from 80-85ºF, non-basking is at 70. I'm thinking the crickets may be a bit large, but he has been eating some. I put D3 supplements on his food at each feeting (lightly dusting) and then a multi-vite every Sunday). Sending out my SO for more SMALL crickets as soon as I can get his butt out of bed! We have a large cage, but it was recommended to me NOT to set him up in such a large enclosure as he is so small. This is why I have his temporary setup.
 
It looks like he is in a mesh laundry basket with one plant and no uv. I have given you a link for a form to fill in. It would be useful to see if there is anything we can pinpoint to help your boy. He should be eating loads of crickets at his age.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

Your supplements are wrong. Too much d3. Your calcium with d3 should be twice a month. Plain calcium daily and multivitamin twice a month.
 
Kate said:
It looks like he is in a mesh laundry basket with one plant and no uv. I have given you a link for a form to fill in. It would be useful to see if there is anything we can pinpoint to help your boy. He should be eating loads of crickets at his age.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/
Click to expand...

He's in a large plastic bin (no holes in the sides, not a laundry basket) with aluminum on the top. There is a UVB light sitting right on top, near the basking bulb, you should be able to see it from the photo.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, Male, Born approx. November 5 , 2013 (From FL Chams) we got him on December 17, 2013
Handling - Once every other day about
Feeding - Using Collared Greens to feed the small/medium crickets, I am putting about 8 crickets in his enclosure every morning at 8am, usually there are a few left at night that I have to take back out
Supplements - Dusting with Calcium every day, and reptivite every Sunday
Watering - I water 4 times a day, hand-misting. I have seen him drink off of the leaves before, late time I saw him do this was about 3-4 days ago.
Fecal Description - Mostly white droppings with some black.
History - Don't have any history on his medical, he came from the breeder healthy as far as we can tell

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Right now he is in a temporary enclosure, as outlined here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Chameleons/comments/1d6ixk/temporary_environment_set_up_for_a_new_young/
Lighting - Basking bulb is in a reflective hood 75W about 2-3 inches from the screen on the top of his enclosure. Using the Reptisun 5.0 UVB bulb, only 2 months old.
Temperature - During the day: basking: approx. 80-85º, non-basking about 75, at night it's about 74 all-around.
Humidity - Not sure if the humidity gauges on our digital thermometers are quite correct, usually they are between 30-40?
Plants - He has a pothos plant in his enclosure
Placement - In the dining room, no windows nearby, not too much air circulation, but enough.
Location - North Texas - Dallas, It's been warm the last few days, not too cold.
 
Kate said:
It looks like he is in a mesh laundry basket with one plant and no uv. I have given you a link for a form to fill in. It would be useful to see if there is anything we can pinpoint to help your boy. He should be eating loads of crickets at his age.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

Your supplements are wrong. Too much d3. Your calcium with d3 should be twice a month. Plain calcium daily and multivitamin twice a month.
Click to expand...

I've been told D3 or no D3, it makes no difference really. I have not been able to find reliable sources either way online.
 
He defiantly only needs d3 twice a month. They are very sensitive to it and can develope toxicity very quickly. Which brand are you using? I have to say that the supplement schedule is dependant on the brand you are using, also whether he goes outside. The brown colour you are seeing may be caused by stress. Can you put more leaves in his viv so he can hide.
 
Kate said:
He defiantly only needs d3 twice a month. They are very sensitive to it and can develope toxicity very quickly. Which brand are you using? I have to say that the supplement schedule is dependant on the brand you are using, also whether he goes outside. The brown colour you are seeing may be caused by stress. Can you put more leaves in his viv so he can hide.
Click to expand...

He's only brown when he is not in his enclosure and handling him, he is green right now and he is in his leaves. His plant is very lush, has plenty of room to crawl around, he doesn't seem to be stressed.
 
CarFax said:
I've been told D3 or no D3, it makes no difference really. I have not been able to find reliable sources either way online.
Click to expand...

D3 DOES make a difference especially for a juvenile that should be growing fast. Doesn't FL chams offer care sheets or links to this forum? They should. We are a very reliable web source for info. You can read the button for basic cham care and compare your setup to it.
 
CarFax said:
His crickets are always free range. These "medium" crickets are what I would consider small, but sending my SO out for some small (tiny) crickets here in a few minutes.

What else of the setup do you want to see? I made sure to get the lights in the shot and his plant.
Click to expand...

Mealworms don't always appeal to chams as they may not move around as much especially in a small container like a shot glass. Many chams are reluctant to shoot their tongues into a small space....they don't like hitting the tip on hard surfaces.

Free ranging the crix can cause issues because the crix hide fairly quickly, they lose their coating of supplements, and they also lose their gutload over time. You can't track how many are getting eaten either. If they don't have a food source they can end up eating grunge on the cage bottom or even chew on a sleeping cham. Not great.
 
Carlton said:
D3 DOES make a difference especially for a juvenile that should be growing fast. Doesn't FL chams offer care sheets or links to this forum? They should. We are a very reliable web source for info. You can read the button for basic cham care and compare your setup to it.
Click to expand...

Regardless, I've been on the forums and on the reddit.com/r/chameleons as well, I don't remember what paperwork came with him. But I have heard from several sources it doesn't make a difference. I will just stop giving him supplement until the "without D3" comes in the mail, because I cannot seem to find it anywhere here in town, go figure, and I live in Dallas, a big city.
 
CarFax said:
I will just stop giving him supplement until the "without D3" comes in the mail, because I cannot seem to find it anywhere here in town, go figure, and I live in Dallas, a big city.
Click to expand...

You don't really need to do this. You can create "plain" calcium other ways. If a local pet shop has plain cuttlebone or mineral blocks for cage birds you can grate it into powder and dust the insects LIGHTLY with that until the herp stuff arrives.
 
(This is Carfax's fiancee)

We have a 24x24x48 enclosure that's boxed up. According to the info we got on /r/chameleons it was recommended we keep him in this kind of setup until he gets big enough to move to the big one. If need be we can easily set that enclosure up but I'm afraid that he won't be able to find his food in something that big. Usually when we handle him he runs from hand to hand pretty quickly. Today he just sat on our hand. When I put him back in his setup he moved quicker on to the leaf and between leaves but I'm pretty sure he's weak from not eating. We put some small crickets in to see if maybe he'll eat them since he isn't eating the medium. Should we go ahead and setup his big enclosure?

Any suggestions are appreciated. We've seen quite a bit of different info between here, /r/chameleons and other places but we're doing the best we can to take care of him and especially get him through this time right now.
 
EDIT: My first post seemed kind of angry, so I decided to calm down and write out some things.

Firstly, I would not use the large cage until he/she grows to be around 5/6 months old at least. You might want to get a medium cage (like 18x18x36) OR get a sheet of plastic, and close off a part of the bottom so if he falls, he won't fall all the 4 feet of the big cage, can find his food easier, etc.

Learn to start putting his food in a little dish it cannot escape out of. Mount it in his cage somewhere easily accessible to him. You can now count how many worms/crickets (they jump out sometimes)/roaches he eats.

Dust his food with NON D3 calcium every day, and WITH D3 calcium twice a month. This ensures he is getting the proper vitamins, at least calcium.

UVB and heat are essential. For a baby, I'd say a basking spot of around 85-88 is good, from what I've read. UVB bulb can be compact or tube, but tube UVB lights are recommended (do not buy a normal fluorescent tube light, it will not put off UVB).

Water can be given to the chameleon by dripping through the screen (can be as simple as buying a little dripper--I highly recommend that. It's very easy!) AND spraying warm water gently through the top so that little drops form. Do this 3 times a day and he will probably drink more readily.

I would not use any kind of dirt in a cage, mostly due to the risk of a chameleon eating it... They can be crafty and will eat it if they want. It might impact them so it is a bad idea.

Plants are good for hiding places to make your chameleon feel more secure. Also, get a live plant (you already have one, it seems) because it helps raise humidity and water stays on them longer. Plenty of vines and branches could be bought from stores, even, as well as plants. Ficus, pothos, and schefflera are our #1 recommended plants on this site, really, along with hibiscus (which requires better lighting than just heat and uvb).

Another thing to consider... The internet is a large place.

I would avoid for reptile advice:
-Facebook groups
-General reptile forums
-reddit

Even /r/chameleons on reddit gives horrible advice sometimes. ALWAYS come here for chameleon related questions. Given that /u/flip69 and /u/garythecoconut are good members on /r/chameleons, you were given misinformation by other websites and them.

People on those sites listed above... I have observed usually they do not care as much about their pet as they should. A lot of people on FB or reptile forums think that a chameleon is just another part of their "look I have beardies, ball pythons, uromastyxes, geckos" collection.

Chameleons have to have someone with 100% correct care and who CARE WITH THEIR HEART to make it work.

I hope your little guy gets what he needs.
 
Last edited:
One option for using your large enclosure is to use a false floor. Use a crate or anything that will raise the floor level and you will instantly have a smaller enclosure. I will never assume one site is the only good source of information for chameleons, but I have never seen one that has as many experienced people as this. True, there is no one answer to any question, but I will definitely say you need a better enclosure than a tote with a screen top. (I had my chameleon in a tank with a screen top at first, but quickly realized the problems associated with it.) Keeping humidity and temperature where I needed it was almost impossible. As for what your chameleon sees, you have an enclosure that only has a clear sight line from above, and this means a threat no matter how you look at it. Every time you feed, clean, try to hold, or anything, you are approaching the chameleon from above and this is the opposite of what you want to do. My advice would be to set up your large enclosure and put a false floor in it, and ask the supplier what they would suggest. They do care about the success and life of their chameleons and are very willing to help!
 
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