Deciding on a chameleon

i agree with everyone on here in saying we only have the chams best interest at heart:) i had a waterfall too but after a few people who have TONS of experience saying it was a bad idea..i took it out immediately!! i like waterfalls as well but if it is BAD for my chams why would i just go ahead and use it anyways just to please my eyes and ears?? the reason you have been told it is BAD and is a NO NO is because you can NOT clean it COMPLETLY.. ther is soo many cracks and crevices in it and not to mention the tube the water travels through,if you remove that tube you can not get it back in place again..so if there is even a tiny spot you miss then that spells DISASTER FOR YOUR CHAM:eek: so please please listen to the well intentioned advice from people who have yrs and yrs of experience..you say that "if you have a problem you will remove it"but why wait till there is a problem? i will do what no one else is doing and BEG YOU NOT TO USE IT,please...we only have the health of your future cham at heart here,we are not out to hurt your feelings,please understand this:) i have a monsoon too and between that and my dripper and multiple mistings with a hand mister my chams are well hydrated..no need for anything else...:D ps..i live only 3 hrs fr edmonton and i use all screen exo-terra enclosures with no humidity probs or temp issues..a thermo/hygrometer does wonders as you can see what you need to do in order to correct possible problems..exmpl:misting more often,raising the basking bulb or lowering it..i have my monsoon set for every hr and it runs for two mins each time..i use live plants as well..best of luck to you..
 
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Well Said Juli & Jared. Now to the OP take this valuable advice and apply it to your choice and your home enviroment. Your trying to replicate the chams natural enviroment as closely as possible within your home. Not make an enclosure that YOU like or think sounds cool (ie, waterfall). You can still have a very aestetically pleasing enclosure without a waterfall. Buy some nice real plants that are cham friendly and get some cool vines and you could add a nice fake rock wall along the back. Those are all cham friendly things to add.
If you do decide to go with a jackson in a exo terra cage be careful of your temps. Montane chams need cooler temps and higher humidity than veiled or panther. Its going to be harder for a newbie owner to control temps in a glass cage and keep it cool enuff for a jacksons during the hott summer months.
 
Thank you guys for all the advice. What are other kinds of smaller chameleons other then the jacksons, that may be able to live in that terrarium
 
It won't let me open the link, is it just pics? I was hoping for something with more color. From what I've read it's even harder to keep pygmies. It's also already set up for slightly bigger chameleons.
 
If you go for the big colorful ones, like panthers (the colours you were asking about in your other thread) you're only going to get maybe 6 months or so of use out if that terrarium before you'll need to upgrade. If it's big & bright you really want, it's probably panther. One per cage. Honestly your best bet is to just trade or sell that set and get a big screen cage now instead, you can divide it off if you want for a young one, or cup feed at first. (I put my 3 month old in a 100 gallon flexarium right away and placed crickets individually on screen sort of near him, and he got them fine, so I only cup feed if I'm in a hurry.)
 
Jjreeb said:
I was planning to have a small fan blowing into the cage from the top to increase airflow.

Can somebody please explain why waterfalls should be avoided?
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A small fan running near the cage can help with air exchange. The main issue you'll have is balancing the proper cage humidity...a cage that is too enclosed will sit stagnant and one that has too much air movement will dry out too quickly. Either way, one of the most important things you must have is an accurate digital hygrometer (don't rely on the typical analog types most pet stores carry...they are unreliable!). Your jax will suffer chronic dehydration if this isn't just right. The effects from the fan may be hard to regulate but you'll just have to experiment.

Waterfalls are not worth all that much IMHO even if you keep them sparkling clean. People keep hoping they raise cage humidity...they don't. Putting them someplace easy to reach to clean isn't all that easy and you won't clean it if its a hassle. Filling that cage space with live bushy plants and misting several times a day will do much more than the waterfall. Crickets invariably fall into the fountain, feces, shed skin, plant material, soil particles, etc. make them constant sources of bacteria. If you like the sounds they make just get one for yourself and put it outside the cage.
 
Jjreeb said:
How would a fishers do in that size? Are they hard to get a hold of?
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Fischer's tend to be very active cage hogs, at least the larger subspecies are. I haven't kept the smaller ones. Bigger cages the better despite their smaller size. They are also even more sensitive to humidity, air quality, and supplementation/nutrition than cbb jax (that we understand better overall). They are also pretty shy and if they don't have enough territory may spend a lot of their time hiding. Now a carpet or high casqued may be possible.

So many problems with "commercially" available caging is due to size. Most are simply too small to accomodate the more commonly available cham species plus the required decently sized potted plants.
 
i personally have used waterfall systems in the past with my veiled chameleon and it had no ill effect as far as i know of. he lived to be 4.5 years of age and would not drink from the drip system method or off leaves after me spraying them. the water fall was my last resort and it worked. as long as the water fall is cleaned properly often and insects aren't able to drown in it i don't see a real issue with it. He ended up dying from a winter power outage.

However i would not ever use a glass aquarium again with a chameleon. The female i had died within a few months in a glass enclosure from a bacteria infection of her eye. thanks to a local pet store who said it would be fine for her. she was my first chameleon.i tried for months to resuscitate her but once their eyes go they are domed. I recommend an all screen habitat only for chameleons and mist the cage at least twice a day.

the male veiled and panther chameleons are probably the easiest to care for if good care is provided. i recommend the veiled simply because of the cheaper price tag. Stay away from females if its your first chameleon if proper care is not provided they can become egg bound. a good size cage too house an adult should be around 2.5 x 2 x 4 ft and juveniles should be kept in smaller cages so to find food more easily.
 
thank all of you guys for all of the imput. a couple more questions. can pygmies be put with frogs/ small geckos. from what i hear pygmies are at least a little bit more communal. also curious about other smaller true chameleons ( jacksons, fischers) others? what are they? and how would they do in a tank that size, nevermind the setup as i am willing to modify it.

thanks again guys for all of your help
 
Jjreeb said:
thank all of you guys for all of the imput. a couple more questions. can pygmies be put with frogs/ small geckos. from what i hear pygmies are at least a little bit more communal. also curious about other smaller true chameleons ( jacksons, fischers) others? what are they? and how would they do in a tank that size, nevermind the setup as i am willing to modify it.

thanks again guys for all of your help
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No way! Chams just don't mix well with others even pygmies. Pygs can be kept in small groups of the same species such as 1 male to a couple of females. Mixing species will stress them all a lot especially if some are day active and some nocturnal, they'll compete for food, transfer bacteria and potentially parasites, some frogs and geckos have toxins in their skins for defence, and most won't come from the same habitats...very bad idea.
 
Carlton said:
Mixing species will stress them all a lot especially if some are day active and some nocturnal, they'll compete for food, transfer bacteria and potentially parasites, some frogs and geckos have toxins in their skins for defence, and most won't come from the same habitats...very bad idea.
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Well I would obviously do extensive research on regions, toxins etc before trying it. I know that peacock geckos electric blue geckos gold dust geckos all come from the same regions are diurnal and don't carry toxins. I would likely monitor th chams maybe cup feed them and have a few branches under the basking light. If you still don't think it's a good Idea I will reconsider, but I personally don't see why not. I think the tank is easily big enough for a few geckos and a few pygmys
 
Jjreeb said:
Well I would obviously do extensive research on regions, toxins etc before trying it. I know that peacock geckos electric blue geckos gold dust geckos all come from the same regions are diurnal and don't carry toxins. I would likely monitor th chams maybe cup feed them and have a few branches under the basking light. If you still don't think it's a good Idea I will reconsider, but I personally don't see why not. I think the tank is easily big enough for a few geckos and a few pygmys
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Sigh :confused: I'm not sure how many more ways we can relay the same basic message...you won't have cage space to keep more than one animal unless it is a small group of pygmies and nothing else.

The problem is not just the tank size, its escape territory. NONE of these species would occur close to the others in nature and if they did they have the option to get away from each other in times of stress. In a cage situation they don't have that option. Your cage is just not large enough to create the range of microhabitats more than one species would need. You won't find day geckos sharing the same exact places with chameleons in the wild. Totally different habitats even though they occur in the same regions. Besides, most of the smaller cham species are from the African mainland, not Madagascar where day geckos are from.

Constant territorial display, competition (the intensity of their interactions may be too subtle for a human to notice but THEY will!), the general stress of captivity around humans all take a toll. I know you are determined to get more use out of your terrarium but experienced cham keepers have learned the hard facts...it almost never works out even in cages much larger. The only time I've successfully kept more than one cham species (2 animals) in the same cage it was 5'x5'x4' in size.
 
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Jjreeb said:
but I personally don't see why not. I think the tank is easily big enough for a few geckos and a few pygmys
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You are not seeing "why not" because you haven't kept this type of herp before. We have and have listened to the sad stories of increasing stress, illness, vet bills (or worse, not even being able to FIND a vet who can help you), eventual death over and over again. No one would waste their time warning you unless there was good reason. If mixing groups of chams and other species was a good idea more of us would be showing our successes!

Pick one species you are interested in and stick with it for now. Get the caging right, keep the chams healthy over the long term. If you want to add to your collection set up other cages so you can get creative. It is kindest for them which should be your most important consideration after all.
 
Carlton said:
Pick one species you are interested in and stick with it for now. Get the caging right, keep the chams healthy over the long term. If you want to add to your collection set up other cages so you can get creative. It is kindest for them which should be your most important consideration after all.
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Thanks alot for the info carlton. Any species you would suggest in particular? I realize I seemed kindof stubborn, but I'm not trying to be I'm simply exploring the options I have. And trust me Carlton, if I could have more terrariums I would have dozens. I love reptiles, and I will do my best using the tools I have to take good care of them. Once again, I would love to hear suggestions of species that are pretty small and colorful. I have been given a list already but would like at least a little info on some of the more colorful and/ or suitable ones. (I'm on my iPod and it's harder to search all these species on it. And plus I trust you guys and I have read alot of faulty info on the web. Links to good,trusted sites would be appreciated as well
 
Jjreeb: please read the advice of the people you see that have been here for a long time. instead of people that have just joined. im not going to say us new forums members dont have any good input but senior members are here to help and give us newbies the best advice they can.

from your first post i dont think a chameleon is a good choice of lizard for your requirements. personally if your wanting something kickass for your set up i would look into some sort of gecko like maybe halmaheras or leachi's just my opinion.
 
I know I'm not the only person who was here long ago when this thread was posted:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/everyone-who-knows-you-cant-keep-chameleons-glass-31937/

SO WOULD EVERYONE PLEASE READ IT BEFORE REPLYING.

Seriously read Chris Anderson's thread and you should be fine with the exo-terra. As for your first chameleon, in the exo-terra I would suggest any of the smaller montane (mountain) species. I personally like Fischers since I've only had panthers, Fischers and Mellers and don't have experience with any other montane species. Fischers are small but highly active and curious chamleoens. They need a lot of cover and a little more humidity than panthers and veileds. I do agree with everyone else and you should ditch the waterfall idea. As for the humidity, I think you should personally hand mist it so you can monitor the actual humidity of the cage and decide whether or not the cage is getting to humid and starting to become stale. However, if you have time constraints I would go with the automated mister but please be careful not to over mist the cage. I think Chris stated in that thread or another one that he noticed the exo-terra cages only need very very very little misting since the live plants and enclosure pretty much retained the humidity. I really hope you get a Fischers and good luck with your first cham. Also I have to plug it, but Secco has some CB Fischers right now so you might want to PM him.
 
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