Dehydrated, lethargic chams

[K9Luvn]

I posted the other day that my male veiled was keeping one eye shut. Thought things were better and then both my male and my female started keeping both eyes shut. I knew their appetite had decreased.. but they now have not eaten for 2 days. They are both very sick.

Honestly they need to see a vet. The only reptile vet has already left for the Feb. Vet Conference. The other vets I have called have no cham experience. Do I take a chance on them or try to help them myself?? Most vets are already heading out of town for the conference and I know what type of vets they use as back ups and thy have about nill experience! I have tech experience for dogs and cats, but not reptile. Seriously they are very ill! My Sambava that sits in the row with them is fine with no problems... just the veileds are both sick.

I have tried to copy and post this with changes from the other day

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Veiled Cham- Male and female- 4 months old and been in my care for 2 months
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Daily
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Mostly eat ¼ inch crickets and repti worms (hasn’t had interest in anything else yet) Crickets are gut loaded with fruit &veggies and cricket crack
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Repashy Calcium Pluss All In One. Dust feeders lightly before feeding
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? Spray cage 3- 4 times daily and I was watching them drink droplets... but then have stopped drinking. Am currently putting dropplets on their nose
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? was normal feces and urate daily.. brown with white urate Fecal Test-Neg.. Now the feces only when in the shower and it is very tiny with gold urate.. very dry and tiny
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. They have been healthy and active until this week.

Cage Info: Reptibreeze
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? screen16x16x20 and comes out to Free Range Daily
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Reptisun 5.0UVB tube light and 60 watt light for basking area. Light programmed on and off 8am to 8pm.
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? bask 80 degrees, nighttime 70 degrees
How do you measure these temps? Digital Thermohygrometer and Infrared Digital Thermohygrometer
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? 55 humidity. Digital Hygrometer and hygrometer gun.
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Ubrella plant and Corn Plant with sticks and vines wrapped around the cage
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? Cages sit on a table in family room that is not much traffic just mostly me in the room and TV on. No fans or vents in the area.
Location - Where are you geographically located? Indiana, USA

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about. dehydrated, lathargic, not opening eyes, not eating

 

[Captive Creations]

could you post a picture?

 

[djfishygillz]

I was having some trouble with my chameleons a bit this winter also, try upping the temperature. I had them in the garage which was about 78 in their cages and around 68 at night but I feel that was to cold, once I upped the temperatures by moving them inside in the hottest room which gets up to about 87 and 90 in their hottest cage spot they really accelerated in eating and looking better. Also I keep the humidity in the room very high as it is a small room and I have a humidifier run constantly on top of a mist king so they stay very hydrated. So I guess the point is try upping the temperature and increasing humidity. Worked for me, also how old are your repti sun bulbs?
Best of luck

 

[jannb]

Try bumping the basking temps to about 84 or even 85 or 86 and see if this helps. I really don't know what else to tell you to do since you have already had fecals. Just keep on giving the long showers and buy some Repti Boost by Flukers and give them some of that along with some Pedialyte.

 

[K9Luvn]

Hopefully these photos come through.

 

[JackP308]

I sent you a PM, That 2nd picture might need a good vet though if its not eating at all. I know you mentioned that in original post but I never seen the pic before pm sent.

 

[Dez]

The first thing I always do when a chameleon starts acting off is look inside their mouth. I have had problems in the past with different mouth issues that caused other symptoms like closing eyes and not eating.

See if you can get their mouth open and look for anything abnormal. Like mucus or a cut or lesion.

It makes me think it is something contagious since they both are showing symptoms Or something environmental that they are both exposed to.

I am sorry I wish I knew the exact answer.

I would clean their cages in case it is environmental and bump up the basking temps. Keep with the showers.

 

[K9Luvn]

I can not believe how many vet offices have told me to call Petsmart!!! What the heck!!!!!

Thanks for the input. How many showers can they have a day??? Can I just keep giving them too them?? Female is more responsive after showers. The male is very weak, but I did get a drop of water in the mouth during the shower. I have to get in the shower with them to assure they do not fall off the plant.

They do free range together. Will get everything re disinfected.

how can I get their mouths open.... any advice???

don't mean to sound short... just typing in a hurry between vet calls, showers...

Thanks for all help I can get for these little ones

 

[ataraxia]

I was in noblesville last week weekend :/ Wish you lived a little closer to me..

where are you buying your feeders?
can i see pics of the cage?
have you fed mealworms or superworms to them?
you have had a recent feces test?
how is the water where you live? do you drink it?

1. could they possibly be impacted from substrate or exoskeletons?
2. possible parasites

 

[K9Luvn]

Thanks for your help. Sorry if I seem short... just typing fast between things. I have put a cool mist ultrasonic humidifier on them and upped the temp to compensate for the coolness of the humidifier. I have wrapped a small blanket... quilted on one side and water resistant on the other side around part of the cages. Like what you would use under a baby in case they wet the bed. They love the humidifier and even the male opens his mouth slightly and takes in nice breaths. His head is now up were it was flat. I will continue calling until I find a freaking vet and working with them.

 

[K9Luvn]

had new crickets delivered just over a week ago before the noblesville show. Just thought of the only difference is I have give them reptiworms and have not given the reptiworms to my sambava. I get crickets from the same cricket guy at the noblesville show... but reptiworms were from another place.

The male is sucking in small amounts of water placed on his mouth when it is closed. I use water purchased from the store for the spray and humidifier

 

[PantherEnvy]

Have you called Petsmart?

 

[K9Luvn]

No At least they're smart enough to tell me That they are not trained for chameleons. I found a veterinarian A couple hours for me On my way I'm sure they will be hospitalized If they make it there. Mucus In the mouth... Looks like a respiratory issue. Does not look good. Please keep him in your thoughts and prayers

 

[ataraxia]

Good luck!

 

[jannb]

My thoughts and prayers are going out to you and your little ones. Keep us updated.

 

[K9Luvn]

Both babies have been hospitalized. The little girl is being a fighter. But that little boy is severely weak.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Yeah that sounds respiratory. Lots of humidity and warmer temps in the meantime. Good luck, I hope they do well for you! Keep us updated!

 

[gwilliams]

Both babies have been hospitalized. The little girl is being a fighter. But that little boy is severely weak.

I pray they make it! Sending warm thoughts your way!

 

[K9Luvn]

Thanks everyone. The vet called and after getting some fluids in they were able to get some liquid critical care type formula in them. The boy is still the worse of the two... but they did get some food in. Hoping for a poop to get an updated fecal. Last fecal was apx 2 months ago by a local vet. She has concern as to why they have not grown much over the last two months since I've had them. She felt they were small for their age. Like I've said they really haven't grown much since I got them.

Thinking about anything differnt. A couple weeks ago i ran low on crickets that I purchase from a reputable local bug breeder that hand delivers them to my door. So I did have to purchase 50 crickets from Petsmart on Sunday until my Tuesday delivery and I always gutload with fruits and vegs 24 hours before feeding new crickets to them. I did give them some reptiworms from a new source from a reptile show. The only thing different from my Sambava is that they had the reptiworms. However my Sambava is bigger and appears more hardy then they are.

At that time I also purchase a different mister http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/mister.php I didn't like it as I didn't like how wet the mist was, so went back to a different mister that was lighter srpay and the chams liked it better.

Hoping and praying for the best... but I'm not sure how much fight this boy has left in him. Last night they appeared to be better (far from well but better).

 

[clarkrw3]

I am so sorry they are SO sick! I really hope they pull through for you. All the big minds have said almost everything I can think of, and they have far more experience than I. The one thing that came to mind to me and it might be stupid, or possibly unable to cause these issues but still.... Do you have any air fresheners or incense etc in the room they are in? I only mention this because I didn't know until recently. But from what I understand they can be really bad for reptiles and specially chameleons and can kill them. Now I don't know if this is true myself but I am sure others know more the I do about it.