DIY Heme Amputation !?!
- Thread starter imhotep
- Start date
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
You need to give him to a rescue that can get him the veterinary care he needs or take him to a vet and have him humanely euthanatized. Don't make him suffer through a bathroom surgery without any anesthetic or sterile technique. There is no question in my mind that this would qualify as animal cruelty just as well as refusing to get him the veterinary care he needs would. When you took this animal in, you took on the responsibility to give it the care it needs, not the care that is more convenient for you. Get over yourself and do what is in the best interest of the animal.
Chris
I am not sure what you expected by making this thread....Even if you do not agree with what everyone is saying you knew the only answer you would get is take him to the Vet. Did you think someone was going to call you and do a step by step surgery over the phone or something? It seems you are getting mad because your not getting the answer your looking for. You know what the right thing to do here is.....
Ross and Eleanor
New Member
You act like a veterinary professional (or profe$$ional as you put), who has studied and trained for years, is simply trying to unnecessarily taking your money? They are qualified. They do not need to go on the internet to ask someone else. You will most likely slowly kill your chameleon. If you have any respect for your animals, you would find a way to get the money.
I fail to see why you asked for help? Some part of you must know that what you're doing is wrong. As so many people have tried to tell you kindly, either get your animal the proper medical attention it needs, give it to someone who will, or if it's got so far that it is suffering do what's best and have it put down (again, by a professional).
I fail to see why you asked for help? Some part of you must know that what you're doing is wrong. As so many people have tried to tell you kindly, either get your animal the proper medical attention it needs, give it to someone who will, or if it's got so far that it is suffering do what's best and have it put down (again, by a professional).
MsCham
New Member
By doing this on your own, you are imposing pain on the animal. If you cannot afford for a professional to do the procedure, you need to take the responsibility on yourself to make the right decision and limit the pain the animal is in. If that means you have to put him down, then that is what is best for the animal. DO NOT force a creature into a procedure which will cause undue stress and pain. If you can't force yourself to put him down, then at least let nature run it's course. For all you know, you could have misdiagnosed the problem. Switch your thinking around, stop being stubborn, and please do what's right for the animal. Go through with it, and it truly is animal cruelty. You wouldn't attempt to do a surgery on a family member if you didn't have the money to pay for it professionally - don't do it to an animal.
Chase
Chameleon Enthusiast
Before I agree with everyone else, I will say I have seen it done before. Did I agree with it, no. Am I suggesting for you to do it? Heck no.
So.. just because you got them for free or paid near nothing for them does not mean you can't pay for very care. I can rescue dogs all day long from people on Facebook for free but I still would not take any animal in prior to having a very lined up in case something happened.
Technically your parents got you for free, just had to have a sperm and egg. What if they didn't take you to the doctor because you were something they didn't have to pay for
Chase
So.. just because you got them for free or paid near nothing for them does not mean you can't pay for very care. I can rescue dogs all day long from people on Facebook for free but I still would not take any animal in prior to having a very lined up in case something happened.
Technically your parents got you for free, just had to have a sperm and egg. What if they didn't take you to the doctor because you were something they didn't have to pay for
Chase
OldChamKeeper
Chameleon Enthusiast
I don't come out of the cave much. Your post above has done just that.
I firmly suggest you don't keep animals you can't care for. The responses people gave you here are what you should have expected, nobody who cares about these animals will tell you how to do backyard surgery.
I personally have taken the time to read a lot of medical books, only since way back when the internet was not yet formed and the universe was still young I had to rely on a few solid vets I trusted, my own experience, and books, books and more books. Dr. Mader put out a nice one some years ago for one example. Got a copy?
Despite all that time, effort, and reading, I learned a simple thing - beyond basic first aid, nutritional deficiencies, importation issues, minor respiratory issues and parasitic infections, everything else needs to be done a by true veterinarian. It took me decades to learn all those things I listed and even I'm telling you to take that animal to a solid reptile vet if you give a crap about it.
This website has- hands down -been one of the most valuable sources for husbandry, breeding, products, peer support, and the purchase of these super neat animals. This has been proven time again and again over years.
All you've proven in a short period of time is that you take in these animals thinking you are doing them a favor and in truth your are just satisfying your ego by keeping some of them.
-Don't take in an animal you can't provide for.
-Don't buy an animal you can't provide for.
-Don't come here asking for help on a subject that every expert here says requires a vet and then spit in their collective faces with a post like the one I just quoted. You sure as hell won't get any help in the future regarding things that many of these experienced people would be happy to help you with if it is in the realm of possibility and also proper.
"Hey anybody out there know how to remove a lizard's junk? Mine's got an infected one!"
That's how you came off.
Go take in cats, you'll find more info available on backyard surgery
Dr O
Veterinarian
@ the OP: Besides the obvious issue here that has been discussed ad nauseum; did it ever occur to you that not only would you be breaking the law, Nevada is one of only 4 states where it is a FELONY to practice veterinary medicine without a license, precisely what you are attempting to do (as well as broadcasting your intent over and over again)? You should probably start Googling the jail time you can face rather than a surgical procedure on an area that is already a disaster.
"You cannot attempt to diagnose, prescribe drugs, perform surgery, or perform any other type of veterinary medical treatment to any animals unless you have a state license. If you do, you commit the crime of practicing veterinary medicine without a license. Practicing medicine on animals without a license is a category D felony carrying:
1-4 years in Nevada State Prison, and up to $5,000 in fines
Unlicensed violaters may also be charged administrative fines. The money amount depends on whether the person has previous violations for practicing veterinary medicine without a license:
For a 1st violation: $1,000
For a 2nd violation: $2,500
For a 3rd violation: $5,000"
So make sure you take lots of photos and videos as well to post them here, and you can teach us how it’s done. Should only be a few sentences or so, since it’s such a simple, benign procedure.
"You cannot attempt to diagnose, prescribe drugs, perform surgery, or perform any other type of veterinary medical treatment to any animals unless you have a state license. If you do, you commit the crime of practicing veterinary medicine without a license. Practicing medicine on animals without a license is a category D felony carrying:
1-4 years in Nevada State Prison, and up to $5,000 in fines
Unlicensed violaters may also be charged administrative fines. The money amount depends on whether the person has previous violations for practicing veterinary medicine without a license:
For a 1st violation: $1,000
For a 2nd violation: $2,500
For a 3rd violation: $5,000"
So make sure you take lots of photos and videos as well to post them here, and you can teach us how it’s done. Should only be a few sentences or so, since it’s such a simple, benign procedure.
zlew
Member
People like you are the worst. You act like a martyr when in reality you are probably just an animal hoarder without enough money to be one, and one who doesn't give a damn about their well being other than not being bloodied and visibly sick so you can show them to all your pals. If you only value advice when it suits you, then you don't value it at all. So don't come on here thinking that everyone is going to help you torture and kill a chameleon, and then start accusing people who are only concerned for the animal of being "pretentious."
ridgebax1
Avid Member
Thank you Dr. O. It is most certainly and deservedly a felony. Perhaps while in jail his co-residents will perform some bathroom surgery on him! Aside from the illegality how one could think performing a surgery without anesthesia would not get the reaction it got is astounding. In addition to practicing without a license I am sure there would be a number of animal neglect and cruelty charges to go with it.
OldChamKeeper
Chameleon Enthusiast
Anybody report him? More than enough info here.
Dr O
Veterinarian
No, not really. As far as anyone knows it's just talk, not action. And while everything I wrote is correct, it still means police or animal control involvement plus a prosecutor who is willing to prosecute. Not necessarily the most common situation when lizards are involved. However, the fact that it's a felony in that state usually means they are more prone to take action vs a misdemeanor charge. Additionally, the only defense strategy relies on animals being property and owners may have more leeway with their own pets, but if the charge involves inflicting pain/cruelty/etc, there is no defense anymore.
It seems like to me that in these days of information access, more and more people feel that they have no need for professionals or specialists anymore. Just go to Wiki-whatever and DIY! Yet I'd also wager that if the OP was brought up on charges, he would still probably hire an attorney rather than acting as his own defense. Which, ironically, would be allowed. But what kind of fool would do that? Anyway, for those too young to know the world pre-internet, issues like this were much more rare as the information wasn't available like it is now. Blessing and a curse, depending on which side you fall on.
For all of us there is a dollar amount that becomes too much to spend, and thankfully I have not had to choose the life of an animal over other bills. I have spent ridiculous amounts of money trying to save them, (as have many here) and I am lucky that it has worked out. I knew when I adopted them that there is a worst case scenario, and I would not have taken on that responsibility if I could not handle it. Having said that, aside from the initial shock of what you are considering, I do understand. I don't agree, but I do understand. Please listen to the advise of others and do what is in the best interest of the animal. Be the voice they (the animals) do not have. Even if it means euthanasia, that may be the best course of action. Let the professionals decide.
Just my two cents... for what its worth.
Just my two cents... for what its worth.
ridgebax1
Avid Member
The answer to this question is yes.
imhotep
New Member
Thanks Decadancin,
I'm not cruel or irresponsible intentionally. For a person that can't afford my own medical needs it really isn't an option to pay for things like this. I just want to take reasonable steps to try and help my cham and I thought people would be more compassionate to my situation. I understand how serious it is! I came to this site because I assumed people could help in some way. Having "vets" on this site tell me it's a felony crime or to be "reported" is absurd.
It's disappointing to see people band together on this forum to trash the heck out of me because they disagree.
All the while a chams life hangs in the balance. I've continued to rinse with sugar water and saline. The infection seems to be less swollen but my real concern is that it will infect his blood if I don't do something.
I'm done asking for peoples opinion here though.
ridgebax1, OldChamKeeper, Dr. O, and anybody else that wants pursue "legal action" is more than welcome to do so. I know the law and my rights within it. As for zlew, get bent! don't go ad hominem on me.
Thanks,
Mark
I'm not cruel or irresponsible intentionally. For a person that can't afford my own medical needs it really isn't an option to pay for things like this. I just want to take reasonable steps to try and help my cham and I thought people would be more compassionate to my situation. I understand how serious it is! I came to this site because I assumed people could help in some way. Having "vets" on this site tell me it's a felony crime or to be "reported" is absurd.
It's disappointing to see people band together on this forum to trash the heck out of me because they disagree.
All the while a chams life hangs in the balance. I've continued to rinse with sugar water and saline. The infection seems to be less swollen but my real concern is that it will infect his blood if I don't do something.
I'm done asking for peoples opinion here though.
ridgebax1, OldChamKeeper, Dr. O, and anybody else that wants pursue "legal action" is more than welcome to do so. I know the law and my rights within it. As for zlew, get bent! don't go ad hominem on me.
Thanks,
Mark
imhotep
New Member
Ms, Cham,
I will have him put down if his condition gets worse. As it stands now he continues to stroll about his cage, eat and has a firm grip. A small amount of urate came out yesterday but the actual poop was not connected. I'm going to give him a long 30-45 minute soak tomorrow in tepid water and hopefully he will push the rest out without too much pain.
Thanks,
Mark
Ross and Eleanor
New Member
Sorry but this is one of the most pathetic things I've ever read.
You are neglecting an animal, asking for advice on how to put an animal through pain/abuse because of your own selfishness. And still, through all of this, you play the victim because people point out that what you are doing is:
1)Cruel
2)Illegal
3)There are alternatives- you do not have to do this. Simply give the chameleon to someone who will do what is best for it.
As for people "trashing the heck" out of you, please grow up. People are worried about an animal which clearly shouldn't have ended up in your care. I hope you don't see that people are telling you to do the right thing and put your animal first before it is too late.
imhotep
New Member
Read more. Like the post before this.
Ross and Eleanor
New Member
I have, doesn't change my opinion in the slightest. Well done, you have finally admitted that once it gets to the stage that the chameleon is in immense suffering, you'll have it put down. Maybe if you'd cared enough in the first place, spent less time trying to do DIY veterinary surgery and not taken in animals you clearly do not have the money or skill to care for, the animal may not have had to lose his life. Your attitude is still terrible, you still act like you are a victim and owed an apology.
