I have had a vieled chameleon given to me. The owners bought it as a present for their 7 years old son who thought it was boring. Being that i am in Greece and they cost anything upto 250 euros they have more money than brains !!! I have never had one of these and will be honest i have no clue but i have spent half the night on the computer as this little guy is very underweight. I have phoned the pet shop this morning and they are going to put in an order for crickets but they could come tomorrow or next week!! They gave me a box of meal worms that are half dead and they have been feeding those on fish food????? I have set him up in my old iguana home and will be replacing the glass doors with mesh later today. What is worrying me now is food. I have been running round catching house flies this morning and have been on a hunt in the garden and found lots of black snake millipedes. Can i give these to him for now? As it is getting cold now i am having trouble finding wild crickets. Is there anything else that i can give him for now? To be honest i am not so worried about it being wild caught because i will be very surprised if he lives. I can promise him a home where he will be loved and PROPERLY cared for but until i can start a cricket farm..lol...i am stuck. Or does anyone know if you can send crickets to Greece or even eggs from praying mantis/ stick insects for me to rear...just an idea as i think whatever i do i am going to have to raise the feeders myself. Thanks for your patience....
Dumped Chameleon...Where to start??
- Thread starter ioanna
- Start date
lumbasammler
New Member
Hello,
i really feel sorry for the poor chameleon...
I´m from Germany, so not that far away from where you are.
Search the internet for greek onlinestores who sell live-feeders, guess you should be able to find something.
First off: how old, big and what sex is the cham?
How big is the cage you can offer?
You need to get some supplements immediatly.
Unfortunately, the tips you will get from american members here won´t get you very far as you live in Europe. You´ll need different lights, supplements and a different cage because the climate is different and you won´t be able to keep your cham outside all year long. Lights you need:
1 BrightSun or SolarRaptor Jungle 70W with fitting electronic ballast
1 HQI 70W with fitting electronic ballast
1-2 linear tubes daylight
if possible: 1 Osram Vitalux
Cage: about 100cm in length, 80cm in depth and 180cm in hight.
2/3 of one side and the top need to be mesh, e.g. the one used to keep flies out.
A lot of plants like ficus benjamina and schefflera+ a lot of branches.
Also i would recommend you to use some soil as substrate.
I therefor use a mixture of sand which is usually used for children to play in, undunged flower soil, white peat and soil from a broad-leaved forest. I wouldn´t use the last ingredient if i were you as i don´t know if there´s anything harmfull in greek forest-soil but you can try it.
Do you think you can afford all this stuff?
i really feel sorry for the poor chameleon...
I´m from Germany, so not that far away from where you are.
Search the internet for greek onlinestores who sell live-feeders, guess you should be able to find something.
First off: how old, big and what sex is the cham?
How big is the cage you can offer?
You need to get some supplements immediatly.
Unfortunately, the tips you will get from american members here won´t get you very far as you live in Europe. You´ll need different lights, supplements and a different cage because the climate is different and you won´t be able to keep your cham outside all year long. Lights you need:
1 BrightSun or SolarRaptor Jungle 70W with fitting electronic ballast
1 HQI 70W with fitting electronic ballast
1-2 linear tubes daylight
if possible: 1 Osram Vitalux
Cage: about 100cm in length, 80cm in depth and 180cm in hight.
2/3 of one side and the top need to be mesh, e.g. the one used to keep flies out.
A lot of plants like ficus benjamina and schefflera+ a lot of branches.
Also i would recommend you to use some soil as substrate.
I therefor use a mixture of sand which is usually used for children to play in, undunged flower soil, white peat and soil from a broad-leaved forest. I wouldn´t use the last ingredient if i were you as i don´t know if there´s anything harmfull in greek forest-soil but you can try it.
Do you think you can afford all this stuff?
littleliz
Member
Poor little cham! Fingers crossed that the crickets arrive tomorrow for you. Veiled chameleons can also eat some veg. Live food is very important but you could try offering him some veg...chopped spring greens, grated carrot, watercress etc to supplement the half dead mealies until you find a supplier for the crickets. I would also put some veg in with the mealies so that they will be properly gut loaded before you feed them(fish flakes arent the best). I have no idea if the wild caught insects you have found are safe or not and ofcause they may be carrying parasites etc that can pass onto your cham. Good luck!
laurie
Retired Moderator
Thanks so much got your help. You are correct that even if we tried we could offer very little help. It looks like you have got all the basic needs covered, now we just hope the Cham makes it.
Olimpia
Biologist & Ecologist
If you can find these, I'll look for supplements that meet these requirements:
1. Phosphorous-free calcium
2. Phosphorous-free calcium with vitamin D3
3. A multivitamin
I hope these can all be found over there as well, I'd be really surprised if they weren't.
Best of luck with your new pet!
1. Phosphorous-free calcium
2. Phosphorous-free calcium with vitamin D3
3. A multivitamin
I hope these can all be found over there as well, I'd be really surprised if they weren't.
Best of luck with your new pet!
lumbasammler
New Member
Guess that was me
I know nobody around here in Germany who keeps chams without substrate and there are no problems at all. You simply need to make sure it doesn´t get too wet and can try out at least once a day.
lumbasammler
New Member
Almost forgot: good supplements available in Germany (so i guess they also are in Greece) are Korvimin ZVT+Reptil for vitamins and Herpetal Mineral for minerals.
You should then mix those two 1:1 and dust about every second-third feeder with this.
You need to always only mix a small amount because you can not use the sam mixture the day after mixing because the incredients will chance when mixed.
Tip: search ebay as well for the supplement as for the bulbs you need. Don´t buy any used bulbs because they need to be exchanged every 6 months so they must be new when you start using them.
Thanks, i´ll do my best to help
I would recommend a very good german forum, but i guess your couldn´t understand a think could you joanna?I can not offer any help. But I would like to applaud you for what you are doing in helping the Cham live a better life in your hands. It sounds like you are trying everything to learn what is best for him in a moments notice to make sure he has the life he deserves. I hope that experienced keepers are able to give you the help you need to make the rest of his life better then what his beginning has been. Thank You!!!
lindawaz
New Member
I wish you all the best with helping out that little Cham. I agree Parents just do not think when buying things for their "Baby"
I do not know what the Weather is there but if high 70's and sunny take the little one out side for some natural sunlight until you get your lights that you need.
I wish you nothing less than the best success with your Cham, We will be able to help you with what you need just not the brand names you can get there.
Here is some information for you a great Cham care sheet.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/chameleonsinmyhouse/395-veiled-chameleon-care-sheet.html
I do not know what the Weather is there but if high 70's and sunny take the little one out side for some natural sunlight until you get your lights that you need.
I wish you nothing less than the best success with your Cham, We will be able to help you with what you need just not the brand names you can get there.
Here is some information for you a great Cham care sheet.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/chameleonsinmyhouse/395-veiled-chameleon-care-sheet.html
lumbasammler
New Member
The caresheet will work to get some general information, but you´ll need to modify most of the practical tips for european climate and the fact that you should use a substrate
Welcome to the forum and the world of chameleons...rather abruptly in your case!
Here's some information I hope will help you with things like supplements, gutloading, etc....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.
Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.
A wide variety of insects (crickets, locusts, silkworms, superworms, tomato worms, phoenix worms, butter worms, once in a while waxworms, etc.) that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it.
Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).
If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).
Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)
Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)
Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.
Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.
Here's some information I hope will help you with things like supplements, gutloading, etc....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.
Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.
A wide variety of insects (crickets, locusts, silkworms, superworms, tomato worms, phoenix worms, butter worms, once in a while waxworms, etc.) that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it.
Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).
If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).
Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)
Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)
Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.
Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.
Just a quick update. I have been and bought a new hydrometer and thermometer tonight so that tomorrow i can work on getting that side of things right for him. At the moment i am unable to find the proper bulbs but have him by my balcony doors so that he can catch some rays when it is nice. I caught a large grasshopper this afternoon and put that in. When i got home from town, Ozzy as he is now called, had pooped...i am so proud of him...lol. I am of course working on the theory of, for something to come out, there must be something going in !!!!!....lol...and the only sign of the rather large grasshopper was a leg. I also have our vet looking for dried crickets for me, so will let you all know. Thank you so much for your replies and support xx
lumbasammler
New Member
Hello,
dried crickets will most probably not work, chameleon normally only accept living prey.
Search the internet for stores in Greece, there should be some.
Are there none of the bulbs i recommended on ebay?
You should at least get the Vitalux, a HQI 70W plus 2 tube lights for UV and light and 1 spot for him to bask.
How about getting a screen cage to let him catch some sun when the temperatures allow it. Just search ebay for flexarium, there should be some offers.
dried crickets will most probably not work, chameleon normally only accept living prey.
Search the internet for stores in Greece, there should be some.
Are there none of the bulbs i recommended on ebay?
You should at least get the Vitalux, a HQI 70W plus 2 tube lights for UV and light and 1 spot for him to bask.
Is he outside or behind glass? Uv-rays cannot penetrate glass so that would be useless.
How about getting a screen cage to let him catch some sun when the temperatures allow it. Just search ebay for flexarium, there should be some offers.
camimom
New Member
Guess that was me
I know nobody around here in Germany who keeps chams without substrate and there are no problems at all. You simply need to make sure it doesn´t get too wet and can try out at least once a day.
Im not concerned about the humidity or the wetness of it. Its if the cham eats it thats the problem. Chams will sometimes eat the substrate, whether on purpose, or becuase they shot for a bug and got substrate along with it. The substrate can cause impaction which can cause death if not dealth with.
camimom
New Member
I hope you can find the bulbs!
You siaid yo uput him by the balcony doors? are they closed? if so, the uvb rays cant pass through glass or plastic.
lumbasammler
New Member
Well, i´m very actively taking part in a german chameleon forums for about 1 year now and i´ve never ever heard of a cham doing this in Germany.
The only place i read about this is here. I guess that´s because your supplements are way below the ones we use. Most of the German keeper´s use minerals all the times and also dust every second-third feeder with vitamins. In the one year I´ve been reading absolutely everything in the german forums but could only find one cham with MBD, which had been kept inadequately by the pre-owner and didn´t get enough UVB and supplements.
Also: The soil i recommend would be unharmful, even if eaten i guess.
There are no fibers and no fertilizer in the substrate.
If the way you guys over their use supplements is not wrong and eating soil is just a natural behaviour of chameleons they should not have any problem with this
Is there any way to age a chameleon? Having read what feels like hundreds of pages i haven't come across anything. I can now tell you that he is definately a he...lol. Ozzy is now a lovely colour and quite happily sitting in fresh hibiscus. I have (hopefully) attached some photos. One more question....What does chameleon pooh look like? I want to make sure that he is otherwise healthy and to be honest i was expecting something like my iguana and i want to know if i sould worry...or rather worry abit more than usual.
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