Lizardlover
New Member
http://www.alysion.org/euthanasia/
Did some research on freezing, and I take back what I said, dont freeze it!
Did some research on freezing, and I take back what I said, dont freeze it!
Dying Senegal, NEED HELP!
- Thread starter clayanddougssenegal
- Start date
Yessabub
Established Member
Man Pssh ive never heard you talk so brutally lol
pssh
Avid Member
Gotta have a back up plan for when we have a freak snow storm and my chameleon's legs fall off, his eyeball pops, he throws up his stomach, and I can't help/leave to get to the vets. 
Seriously though, gotta have a plan for just in case... I'd rather kill an animal while it was dying than know I didn't stop it's pain/suffereing when I could have. I hope that I will never have to and I can just take it to the vets though.
Seriously though, gotta have a plan for just in case... I'd rather kill an animal while it was dying than know I didn't stop it's pain/suffereing when I could have. I hope that I will never have to and I can just take it to the vets though.
You said..."I’ve sprayed it with Vitaspray before"...I don't think spraying the chameleon with vitamins is a good idea.
We need temperature and lighting information.
You said you provided it with a lily...was it well-washed, both sides of the leaves? Most lilies are toxic...if the insects chewed on the lily and then the chameleon ate them then your chameleon could be suffering from that. This might account for its odd color change too.
Hope you and the vet figure it out....but from the look of the chameleon, I don't give it much hope.
We need temperature and lighting information.
You said you provided it with a lily...was it well-washed, both sides of the leaves? Most lilies are toxic...if the insects chewed on the lily and then the chameleon ate them then your chameleon could be suffering from that. This might account for its odd color change too.
Hope you and the vet figure it out....but from the look of the chameleon, I don't give it much hope.
clayanddougssenegal
New Member
We got him to the vet, he is alive and kicking thanks to some Gatorade?
well thanks!
well thanks!
eisentrauti
Avid Member
I can't believe that this chameleon could be saved just by electrolyts
TheRoachRanch
New Member
I sorta came on this thread after the fact, but just by those pix I'm going out on limb (no pun intended) and saying that you guys hit it right on the head. WC with parasites, and totally and utterly dehydrated just by seeing how sunken in his eyes were.
Unfortunately this is a good example of a species of lizard that is still being imported from the wild. The Chameleon trade is STILL alive and well, and the only way to stop it is by spreading the word (person to person if need be) and educating them on the importance of buying captive bred Chameleons.
You did the right thing by taking it to a vet. I remember when I was younger working at my buds pet store we ordered and got 8 Senegals in. Quarantined them and I had first pick (this was in 1988 mind you). We lost 1 chameleon each of the first 4 days we had them. I chose mine and 2 of the other 3 died within a week. Mine lived for 4 years and my friend kept the other which lasted about 2 1/2 years. My point being is that as this guy gets better and pulls through for you (talk like it's going to happen, positive vibes help TRUST ME on this) start educating yourself and sucking up all the knowledge from others here on the board. I personally never had this outlet of information. We had to use books back then! Of course I made sure they had lots of pictures w/ big words so I didn't fall asleep reading them! But none the less now you have the internet. Use it to your advantage and great things will come out of your Chameleon experience!
Unfortunately this is a good example of a species of lizard that is still being imported from the wild. The Chameleon trade is STILL alive and well, and the only way to stop it is by spreading the word (person to person if need be) and educating them on the importance of buying captive bred Chameleons.
You did the right thing by taking it to a vet. I remember when I was younger working at my buds pet store we ordered and got 8 Senegals in. Quarantined them and I had first pick (this was in 1988 mind you). We lost 1 chameleon each of the first 4 days we had them. I chose mine and 2 of the other 3 died within a week. Mine lived for 4 years and my friend kept the other which lasted about 2 1/2 years. My point being is that as this guy gets better and pulls through for you (talk like it's going to happen, positive vibes help TRUST ME on this) start educating yourself and sucking up all the knowledge from others here on the board. I personally never had this outlet of information. We had to use books back then! Of course I made sure they had lots of pictures w/ big words so I didn't fall asleep reading them! But none the less now you have the internet. Use it to your advantage and great things will come out of your Chameleon experience!
serenitystarlite
Established Member
So what did they vet say? How is he doing now?
eisentrauti
Avid Member
So and what are the parents of CB chameleons, or their ancestors ???? Yes, WC chameleons
...The problem are not the imports itself, the problem are the some of the exporters which keep them too long under bad conditions and the resellers here...and at least in this case the customers which buy half death animals. Why should they change the conditions they can sell the animals when they still find sb who has NO idea about them and buys the half death end products ?
TheRoachRanch
New Member
So and what are the parents of CB chameleons, or their ancestors ???? Yes, WC chameleons
The problem are not the imports itself, the problem are the some of the exporters which keep them too long under bad conditions and the resellers here...and at least in this case the customers which buy half death animals. Why should they change the conditions they can sell the animals when they still find sb who has NO idea about them and buys the half death end products ?
Usually CB parents are generations removed from WC Chameleons. At that point like most other animals (Red Tail Boas are a good example) their immune systems are adjusted much better to captivity. CB animals are much more durable than their wild counterparts. I see where you're coming from, but we are almost 2 decades into breeding most Chameleons available on the market today and some species have been being bred for close to 30 years.
There was a time that almost everything available in the Reptile trade today was only seen in zoo's. And that was only about 20 years ago. If you think keeping reptiles such as Chameleons is difficult today (which they are), it was incredibly if not darn near impossible to keep a lot of these animals alive and healthy back then for long periods of time. People would sink thousands of dollars into state of the art equipment back then. All of it is junk to us now but just some of the lighting systems were ridiculous amounts of money for what we'd consider crap by todays standards.
To this day everyone should be doing their homework on where an animal such as a Chameleon came from. There is no reason to buy a WC animal that is currently being produced in captivity. However, rarities in species such Chameleons are still highly prized by breeders for one reason. To produce a CB version of them, as there is big money involved. So in that instance there still is a market for imports. But the way our government is cracking down, eventually it'll be totally illegal to import any animal into this country w/o the correct permits.
So to debate your statement. It has nothing to do w/ the exporter, importers, or even the uneducated buyer. Unlike other species of lizards, Chameleons are an extremely fragile lizard that doesn't take well to being plucked off a tree, packaged and shipped to the states. When you take a wild Chameleon out of it's environment you put it at serious risk no matter how healthy it is, how careful you are transporting it, and how well you take care of it when you receive it. Those are the facts stated in every Chameleon book published from 1970 - present day. As a matter of fact I think in the repub of the classic "Chameleons and Anoles" has been revised to contain a chapter about how important it is to buy Captive Bred Chameleons.
Being in the feeder business I've personally had an inside to the other side of the Chameleon hobby and watched collectors (most of which are breeders) around the country try to import Chameleons every which way from Sunday and it almost never works when it comes to importing new species. It becomes very frustrating to them and they spend boku dollars for certain species. BUT when they do succeed it's a BIG deal. W/o them doing this, we wouldn't be having this discussion as the Chameleon trade wouldn't exist. My whole point to my previous post was this. For the average person just wanting to get a pet Chameleon, care for it properly and have it live a nice long healthy life, they need to be careful when it comes to a purchase and make 100% sure that they are buying a CB animal.
Cainschams
New Member
I agree, CB animals are much hardier in captivity than WCs for many obvious reasons. However, there are many chameleons available on the market today and still the only chameleons that are produced with enough regularity to find CB specimens often are panthers and veileds. Very few people have large breeding groups of most other species.
IF you are in the market for a panther or veiled then there really is no reason to buy something that is not CB unless you are interested in breeding and wanting to introduce fresh blood into your projects. Every once in a while you will find other species that are available (most times offspring are from gravid imports) and sold for a much lesser price than they should be because most want to work with panthers because as you said "money involved" and there just isnt that type of money coming in for the commonly imported species.
It is nice to have this community when wanting to purchase something CB that isnt often available. This last year there were some awesome species produced (deremensis, multituberculata, quads, montium, hoehnelii, johnstonii, uthmoelleri, carpets, etc.) but those species have a long way to go to reach the production of veileds and panthers. Lets face it, it wont happen.
Some animals do not acclimate well to captivity, yes. But the conditions they are kept in pre and post export along with how they are shipped does increase your chance to acclimate a certain animal. I just can not see how it wouldnt?
Agreed but it again comes down to, there are not even a handful of species being produced enough to have huge CB populations so everyone can choose the type of looks/demeanor of the chameleon they want to purchase. I love the flashy colors of some of the panther locales, never was in to veileds but there are some nice high yellow ones, but personally I find many other species more interesting looks wise and to work with.
Its a shame all of the animals that do come in only to die in the hands of keepers (experienced or not) that care after all the people make their $ from it.
eisentrauti
Avid Member
I think you have never seen chameleons which are really fresh caught... Their condition depends to 90% on the exporter/importer. They aren't that fragile.
TheRoachRanch
New Member
No I've never been there when they catch them and package them in Madagascar, asia, or any place they import Chameleons from. However thanks to my job, and the time and effort I've put into making some solid relationships and contacts over the years, I have had multiple opportunities to see the difference between an animal that comes in for the pet trade vs.those that are shipped into universities and zoo's first hand. That right there is a world of difference. When a biology dept. gets permits and sends out for specimens they are in much different shape than those that are hocked off a tree into a bag and flown in. And I think I made it quite clear in a previous statement in this thread I've owned what you call a "fresh caught" Chameleon for 4 years.
I think Chameleons to the Lizard hobby are like Angelfish to the Saltwater hobby. Both are extremely beautiful animals yet the species as a whole is super fragile in captivity. (If I could put a twist on a few lines that Cainschams posted in their reply
) There's only a few different kinds of these creatures that have taken to captivity. That being said, if someone like the person who started this thread is interested in keeping a Chameleon I would go w/ a species such as a Panther or Veiled and work up from there. As for importing, I don't see a problem w/ it. The way these countries are cutting down forests, Chameleons are either going to get squashed when their tree falls over or picked up, shoved in a bag, and sent over to someone who wants to care for them. Either way, these guys are in jeapordy.
As I stated, I'm here to learn, share my experiences and be a part of the forums w/ everyone. I'm just simply sharing what I've seen w/ my own two eyes. Touched w/ my own two hands. And learned from people who study these creatures. I could be wrong (and correct me if I am so I can shut up) but that's what I was told these forums were all about?
Personally, I'm not here to argue w/ you, or put any of your ideas and opinions down as I value them just as much as anyone elses. Am I an expert? By no means. But please don't call out my integrity or try to make me look stupid just because I'm a newb on the forums w/ 4 posts when you are the one making the statement that Chameleons (especially WC) "aren't that fragile."
PET LAND PETS COME WITH A FREE VET VESIT. YOU NEED TO DO EVERYTHING ON THIS FORUM TO KEEP THAT LIL GUY ALIVE. if you look in my member gallery you can see pics of my cb senegal female who died almost a year ago. it still makes me want to cry. i did not have the resource of the forum. also besides geting him water feed him baby food first foods in the jar, bannanas mixed with water that will give him a great boost also the green foods too but hey dont like thoes as much. good luck
