Egg cycle

[Sirbudlbc]

The bottom half is an aquarium. I have a brand new full screen reptibreeze ready to go then this happened. That will be changed immediately. I'll go get a different tub. And shes in a room by herself the only time I go in there is to feed.

 

[Sirbudlbc]

She was more of a rescue then a rehome as I found out a bit too late. So I've been trying to play catch up with basically everything I got from my friend. I've been piecing together a new viv bit by bit with the help from you all. Her first clutch he just let her have them on the bare glass bottom. She was in really bad shape when she came to me but I've been trying hard to fix it all.

 

[cloverthechameleon]

I would switch that dirt out with washed play sand as well, you could use a ratio of 8-1 play sand to soil is about what i use. Another idea is to fill a garbage can with about 14 inches or so of play sand put afew branches and plants in there as well as her uvb light on top and place her in there for a day of 2. I use this method if the chameleon has stopped eating and is getting very close to laying, but not exploring the bottom of the enclosure and laying bin.

 

[44937]

You are incorrect. The about of energy and nutrients the female exhausts is far less with an infertile clutch. Females should be one year old before breeding. No exceptions.
Furthermore, line breeding and inbreeding are a big no no.

I reached out to a poultry veterinarian acquaintance inquiring about this. She said the energy and nutrient deprivation from a female hen developing an egg is exactly the same between a fertile and infertile egg. The only difference between the two is the mating process which may be more strenuous on a smaller hen (and the same goes with a younger female chameleon).
The second difference is the chance that the fertilized embryo may develop the egg in the wrong spot and cause issues for the female however this may also occur with unfertilized eggs.
She says that the same amount of energy is used for fertilized and unfertilized eggs and this applies to any egg laying animal; the yolk content (fertilized or not) and shell formation around the yolk is identical in nutrient deprivation of the female. She acknowledges she is not as familiar with reptiles as she is with hens but based on her studies and experience, the same should apply to reptiles as it does with poultry.

@Chameleon Mike any chance are you able to source the information in your post?

 

[Brodybreaux25]

I reached out to a poultry veterinarian acquaintance inquiring about this. She said the energy and nutrient deprivation from a female hen developing an egg is exactly the same between a fertile and infertile egg. The only difference between the two is the mating process which may be more strenuous on a smaller hen (and the same goes with a younger female chameleon).
The second difference is the chance that the fertilized embryo may develop the egg in the wrong spot and cause issues for the female however this may also occur with unfertilized eggs.
She says that the same amount of energy is used for fertilized and unfertilized eggs and this applies to any egg laying animal; the yolk content (fertilized or not) and shell formation around the yolk is identical in nutrient deprivation of the female. She acknowledges she is not as familiar with reptiles as she is with hens but based on her studies and experience, the same should apply to reptiles as it does with poultry.

@Chameleon Mike any chance are you able to source the information in your post?

Very interesting...

 

[Chameleon Mike]

I reached out to a poultry veterinarian acquaintance inquiring about this. She said the energy and nutrient deprivation from a female hen developing an egg is exactly the same between a fertile and infertile egg. The only difference between the two is the mating process which may be more strenuous on a smaller hen (and the same goes with a younger female chameleon).
The second difference is the chance that the fertilized embryo may develop the egg in the wrong spot and cause issues for the female however this may also occur with unfertilized eggs.
She says that the same amount of energy is used for fertilized and unfertilized eggs and this applies to any egg laying animal; the yolk content (fertilized or not) and shell formation around the yolk is identical in nutrient deprivation of the female. She acknowledges she is not as familiar with reptiles as she is with hens but based on her studies and experience, the same should apply to reptiles as it does with poultry.

@Chameleon Mike any chance are you able to source the information in your post?

Interesting. My source is the members of this forum.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

There has not been any studies of that depth in chameleons or reptiles that I’m aware of. Poultry probably has been studied more and it makes sense that the energy requirement really should be the same between fertile and infettile egg development. That being said, the frequency of laying eggs often does increase once they are bred because they can lay more than one fertile clutch from a single breeding in most chameleons. So while the individual egg energy requirement may not be more because they’re fertilized they may produce more clutches more frequently than they would otherwise which will definitely take more energy. No studies on it but I have seen that practically.

 

[44937]

Makes perfect sense and great information.
Is anyone aware of a things we can do (environment factors) to discourage the formation and laying of infertile eggs?
My female is only about 8 months old now and she is acting like she is gravid again on her second clutch of infertile eggs. She laid her first clutch at 7 months and I really want her to gain more size before wasting her energy on more infertile clutches.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Makes perfect sense and great information.
Is anyone aware of a things we can do (environment factors) to discourage the formation and laying of infertile eggs?
My female is only about 8 months old now and she is acting like she is gravid again on her second clutch of infertile eggs. She laid her first clutch at 7 months and I really want her to gain more size before wasting her energy on more infertile clutches.

Good question. Chameleons and other animals instinctually will reproduce more when conditions are ideal. If there is abundant food and perfect temperatures that would give hatchlings the best chance at survival. So one of the reasons females start laying young is because we overfeed them. Keeping your female lean is better for her overall health and will reduce her drive to produce eggs. We don’t want her to be underfed, just not overfed. Most females I see for egg issues are pleasantly plump, if not fat. Ideal conditions also make them larger clutches, which definitely would be more energy than a smaller clutch regardless of whether or not they are fertile.

There is also a thought that keeping temperatures on the lower side of the ideal range will help reduce size and frequency of clutches. JannB has used this method for a long time. By not letting basking temps go over about 85 for females they can still meet their metabolism needs without conditions being too perfect enough to drive them to reproduce more.